Celtic Heroes

The Official Forum for Celtic Heroes, the 3D MMORPG for iOS and Android Devices

Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#31
Zkills wrote:
Misdemeanor wrote:Dunno where yall keep getting this idea that epona is special lol. Mabon gets just as many xfers as you, probably more. (Shocking ik!) we thrive on a dkp system. We kill dino on spawn nearly every spawn

Belenus has 3 competing clans atm. 2 of which are strong enough to take every single raid in the game currently. They have lockfights on bloodthorn

You call these servers dying? Lol epona is a meme, thats why people go to it. Nobody takes the server seriously, not even yourselves

Just because clans can kill bosses doesn’t mean the server is thriving lol. Both belenus and mabon have terrible economy’s and all the areas, including the castle, are ghost towns at most hours of the day. Epona has very active areas around the clock and a booming economy with chests being sold on average 25k each. A thriving server is a server with high activity and a great economy and Epona has both. Almost every server can say they kill bt on spawn now and killing Dino is no longer anything special (congrats, you can kill Dino on spawn with an exploit. Here’s your tinfoil medal). Not many servers can say they’re incredibly active and have a great economy like Epona can (and no, people logging just for bosses doesn’t make a server active).

I played belenus from 2012 up until the time I left for Epona a little over a year ago, and that server has been on a decline forever now. A lot of the power there is made up of shared accounts or multi loggers, and it makes me wonder how many other servers rely on shared accounts or multi loggers as well. And it’s not like Mabon has done much better with the killing of WG, making players quit the game as a result. As much as I disliked WG, killing off a clan for the sake of competition is never a good thing because people always quit as a result. It’s counterproductive.

How would castle campers make a server active .-. Sure you have more people online, but I’m pretty sure the word “active” tends to refer to people actually doing stuff... unless the word has changed, in which I promise to be totally active this weekend ;)
Like ima be so active, it’ll be as active as Epona’s castle!!


Also the fact that every item in game isn’t for sale at cheap prices doesn’t mean an economy is bad lel, it just means the economy is different...
ya lixs might be a tad cheaper on epona, but on a standard dom clan server you only need gold for lixs since everything gear is free. Thus relatively, lixs are cheaper on dom clan servers, etc... you can’t forget opportunity cost when determining demand etc... basically optimal prices are controlled by relative worth, not just how many there are... I could explain the math... but I feel like it wouldn’t go very far ._.
In other words...
You are comparing apples to oranges with no conversion rate in mind, no der your results are going to be skewed :lol:
Gwydion - Voted Top Noob of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 226 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

#BringBackMuldar2020

Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#32
bob the mage wrote:
Zkills wrote:
Misdemeanor wrote:Dunno where yall keep getting this idea that epona is special lol. Mabon gets just as many xfers as you, probably more. (Shocking ik!) we thrive on a dkp system. We kill dino on spawn nearly every spawn

Belenus has 3 competing clans atm. 2 of which are strong enough to take every single raid in the game currently. They have lockfights on bloodthorn

You call these servers dying? Lol epona is a meme, thats why people go to it. Nobody takes the server seriously, not even yourselves

Just because clans can kill bosses doesn’t mean the server is thriving lol. Both belenus and mabon have terrible economy’s and all the areas, including the castle, are ghost towns at most hours of the day. Epona has very active areas around the clock and a booming economy with chests being sold on average 25k each. A thriving server is a server with high activity and a great economy and Epona has both. Almost every server can say they kill bt on spawn now and killing Dino is no longer anything special (congrats, you can kill Dino on spawn with an exploit. Here’s your tinfoil medal). Not many servers can say they’re incredibly active and have a great economy like Epona can (and no, people logging just for bosses doesn’t make a server active).

I played belenus from 2012 up until the time I left for Epona a little over a year ago, and that server has been on a decline forever now. A lot of the power there is made up of shared accounts or multi loggers, and it makes me wonder how many other servers rely on shared accounts or multi loggers as well. And it’s not like Mabon has done much better with the killing of WG, making players quit the game as a result. As much as I disliked WG, killing off a clan for the sake of competition is never a good thing because people always quit as a result. It’s counterproductive.

How would castle campers make a server active .-. Sure you have more people online, but I’m pretty sure the word “active” tends to refer to people actually doing stuff... unless the word has changed, in which I promise to be totally active this weekend ;)
Like ima be so active, it’ll be as active as Epona’s castle!!


Also the fact that every item in game isn’t for sale at cheap prices doesn’t mean an economy is bad lel, it just means the economy is different... ya lixs might be a tad cheaper, but you only need gold for lixs since everything else is free. Thus relatively, lixs are cheaper on dom clan servers, etc...

You are comparing apples to oranges with no conversion rate in mind, no der your results are going to be skewed :lol:

Activity can easily be measured by how many players are online at any given time of the day. The castle is a good way to read a servers activity because it is the social hub of the game. The more people that are online and active, the more people will gravitate towards the castle to socialize, trade, or do whatever activities are present (dicing and give aways are quite common on Epona). People don’t necessarily have to be doing much, just as long as they’re online. A bunch of people online at any given time not doing much still contributes to the activity of server versus everyone simply logging off after a boss dies leaving areas empty.

In terms of economy, the best way to read a servers Economy is by looking at chest prices. I say that because cheaper chests mean there are a lot of plat buyers which in turn means a large abundance of plat items that are also at a much cheaper price. Eggs, tokens, lixs, sigils, etc. I’ve mentioned quite a few times before that Epona’s Free market heavily contributes to the economy of the server because you can literally buy and sell everything, which gives gold more value, which incentivizes players to buy chests, which drives down the prices on everyday items. A free market is better than a restricted market, think they taught that in economics lol. Most dom servers have seen heavy inflation because there’s simply nothing for people to buy which means less plat buyers. Of course some restrictions are necessary in the real world, but the economics within the game are a million times more simple than the real world and doesn’t have those complications where restrictions would be necessary. So really there’s no reason whatsoever for dom servers/clans to put restrictions on their market other than personal interests/greed.

This is starting to become an over simplified version of classic Cold War democracy vs communism lmao
Zkills, Proud general of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers. Server banned for doing PvP in arena.

Can you do the impossible?
Celtic Heroes Ultimate Challenge

Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#33
Zkills wrote:
bob the mage wrote:
Zkills wrote:Just because clans can kill bosses doesn’t mean the server is thriving lol. Both belenus and mabon have terrible economy’s and all the areas, including the castle, are ghost towns at most hours of the day. Epona has very active areas around the clock and a booming economy with chests being sold on average 25k each. A thriving server is a server with high activity and a great economy and Epona has both. Almost every server can say they kill bt on spawn now and killing Dino is no longer anything special (congrats, you can kill Dino on spawn with an exploit. Here’s your tinfoil medal). Not many servers can say they’re incredibly active and have a great economy like Epona can (and no, people logging just for bosses doesn’t make a server active).

I played belenus from 2012 up until the time I left for Epona a little over a year ago, and that server has been on a decline forever now. A lot of the power there is made up of shared accounts or multi loggers, and it makes me wonder how many other servers rely on shared accounts or multi loggers as well. And it’s not like Mabon has done much better with the killing of WG, making players quit the game as a result. As much as I disliked WG, killing off a clan for the sake of competition is never a good thing because people always quit as a result. It’s counterproductive.

How would castle campers make a server active .-. Sure you have more people online, but I’m pretty sure the word “active” tends to refer to people actually doing stuff... unless the word has changed, in which I promise to be totally active this weekend ;)
Like ima be so active, it’ll be as active as Epona’s castle!!


Also the fact that every item in game isn’t for sale at cheap prices doesn’t mean an economy is bad lel, it just means the economy is different... ya lixs might be a tad cheaper, but you only need gold for lixs since everything else is free. Thus relatively, lixs are cheaper on dom clan servers, etc...

You are comparing apples to oranges with no conversion rate in mind, no der your results are going to be skewed :lol:

Activity can easily be measured by how many players are online at any given time of the day. The castle is a good way to read a servers activity because it is the social hub of the game. The more people that are online and active, the more people will gravitate towards the castle to socialize, trade, or do whatever activities are present (dicing and give aways are quite common on Epona). People don’t necessarily have to be doing much, just as long as they’re online. A bunch of people online at any given time not doing much still contributes to the activity of server versus everyone simply logging off after a boss dies leaving areas empty.

In terms of economy, the best way to read a servers Economy is by looking at chest prices. I say that because cheaper chests mean there are a lot of plat buyers which in turn means a large abundance of plat items that are also at a much cheaper price. Eggs, tokens, lixs, sigils, etc. I’ve mentioned quite a few times before that Epona’s Free market heavily contributes to the economy of the server because you can literally buy and sell everything, which gives gold more value, which incentivizes players to buy chests, which drives down the prices on everyday items. A free market is better than a restricted market, think they taught that in economics lol. Most dom servers have seen heavy inflation because there’s simply nothing for people to buy which means less plat buyers. Of course some restrictions are necessary in the real world, but the economics within the game are a million times more simple than the real world and doesn’t have those complications where restrictions would be necessary. So really there’s no reason whatsoever for dom servers/clans to put restrictions on their market other than personal interests/greed.

This is starting to become an over simplified version of classic Cold War democracy vs communism lmao

:lol:
1) If that’s how you want to measure activity, I would call the reading useless as it doesn’t actually affect a servers ability to do anything. That’s fine if that’s how you want to define it, but then you shouldn’t be using it as a metric to say how powerful, successful, etc... a server is. In other words, sitting in castle may give players people to talk to, but past a social aspect it means nothing, and most dom clan servers engage socially via 3rd party apps so nonetheless, the same socialization occurs.
2) you can’t compare an item across two economies like that, they are different. A basic idea of economics is that supply should equal demand, and that is where prices get set. In other words if at 50k a chest I demand 5 chests and at 50k a chest you want to supply me 5 chests, we have reached equilibrium (hypothetical numbers only).
Now this makes it seem like you can just compare chest prices across a server, but that’s jumping the gun. The demand function is a functional of relative utility along your income. In other words, how much you demand of a good is based off how much of that good you want based off how how much would rather have that good compared to other goods (lixs, gear, etc...). This is then constrained by how much you can actually afford.
Let me know if I’ve lost you up to here, but I like to think this makes sense given how we buy stuff, but I know the math terms can complicate it.
So because of this, the actual prices on different servers are based relatively off what else someone could buy, or the opportunity cost.
Because a player on epona needs to think about buying: all their gear, lixs, Lux, plat, etc... whereas on a dom clan server players only need to think about buying lixs and lux and plat (as all gear is “earned” and bought via time rather than gold), we are using two different baskets for comparing utility. Thus even if a player has the same utility function, you would get different numbers because the goods that chests, lixs, or any other nongear item are being compared to are different on both worlds.

In other words, because players on Epona have to buy everything with gold, the actual (nominal) prices have to be lower for each item, because the amount of gold a player possesses is about the same, but because they have to be able to buy so much more, sellers have to sell at lower costs. On dom clan servers prices are higher because lixs are pretty much all people have to buy outside the odd fash set etc... because of this lixs are higher in nominal price. But across both servers I would bet my bottom dollar that real prices are lower on some dom clan servers than on Epona due to these facts.

In other words, as an example, 2m gold can basically get you a fully geared (full EDL including weapons, dg, and other EG gear) EG (lvl 220+) toon on Gwyd with a reasonable fash set... the same 2m on Epona wouldn’t even cover DG BP it I remember my prices correctly.
Gwydion - Voted Top Noob of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 226 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

#BringBackMuldar2020

Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#34
bob the mage wrote:
Zkills wrote:
bob the mage wrote:How would castle campers make a server active .-. Sure you have more people online, but I’m pretty sure the word “active” tends to refer to people actually doing stuff... unless the word has changed, in which I promise to be totally active this weekend ;)
Like ima be so active, it’ll be as active as Epona’s castle!!


Also the fact that every item in game isn’t for sale at cheap prices doesn’t mean an economy is bad lel, it just means the economy is different... ya lixs might be a tad cheaper, but you only need gold for lixs since everything else is free. Thus relatively, lixs are cheaper on dom clan servers, etc...

You are comparing apples to oranges with no conversion rate in mind, no der your results are going to be skewed :lol:

Activity can easily be measured by how many players are online at any given time of the day. The castle is a good way to read a servers activity because it is the social hub of the game. The more people that are online and active, the more people will gravitate towards the castle to socialize, trade, or do whatever activities are present (dicing and give aways are quite common on Epona). People don’t necessarily have to be doing much, just as long as they’re online. A bunch of people online at any given time not doing much still contributes to the activity of server versus everyone simply logging off after a boss dies leaving areas empty.

In terms of economy, the best way to read a servers Economy is by looking at chest prices. I say that because cheaper chests mean there are a lot of plat buyers which in turn means a large abundance of plat items that are also at a much cheaper price. Eggs, tokens, lixs, sigils, etc. I’ve mentioned quite a few times before that Epona’s Free market heavily contributes to the economy of the server because you can literally buy and sell everything, which gives gold more value, which incentivizes players to buy chests, which drives down the prices on everyday items. A free market is better than a restricted market, think they taught that in economics lol. Most dom servers have seen heavy inflation because there’s simply nothing for people to buy which means less plat buyers. Of course some restrictions are necessary in the real world, but the economics within the game are a million times more simple than the real world and doesn’t have those complications where restrictions would be necessary. So really there’s no reason whatsoever for dom servers/clans to put restrictions on their market other than personal interests/greed.

This is starting to become an over simplified version of classic Cold War democracy vs communism lmao

:lol:
1) If that’s how you want to measure activity, I would call the reading useless as it doesn’t actually affect a servers ability to do anything. That’s fine if that’s how you want to define it, but then you shouldn’t be using it as a metric to say how powerful, successful, etc... a server is. In other words, sitting in castle may give players people to talk to, but past a social aspect it means nothing, and most dom clan servers engage socially via 3rd party apps so nonetheless, the same socialization occurs.
2) you can’t compare an item across two economies like that, they are different. A basic idea of economics is that supply should equal demand, and that is where prices get set. In other words if at 50k a chest I demand 5 chests and at 50k a chest you want to supply me 5 chests, we have reached equilibrium (hypothetical numbers only).
Now this makes it seem like you can just compare chest prices across a server, but that’s jumping the gun. The demand function is a functional of relative utility along your income. In other words, how much you demand of a good is based off how much of that good you want based off how how much would rather have that good compared to other goods (lixs, gear, etc...). This is then constrained by how much you can actually afford.
Let me know if I’ve lost you up to here, but I like to think this makes sense given how we buy stuff, but I know the math terms can complicate it.
So because of this, the actual prices on different servers are based relatively off what else someone could buy, or the opportunity cost.
Because a player on epona needs to think about buying: all their gear, lixs, Lux, plat, etc... whereas on a dom clan server players only need to think about buying lixs and lux and plat (as all gear is “earned” and bought via time rather than gold), we are using two different baskets for comparing utility. Thus even if a player has the same utility function, you would get different numbers because the goods that chests, lixs, or any other nongear item are being compared to are different on both worlds.

In other words, because players on Epona have to buy everything with gold, the actual (nominal) prices have to be lower for each item, because the amount of gold a player possesses is about the same, but because they have to be able to buy so much more, sellers have to sell at lower costs. On dom clan servers prices are higher because lixs are pretty much all people have to buy outside the odd fash set etc... because of this lixs are higher in nominal price. But across both servers I would bet my bottom dollar that real prices are lower on some dom clan servers than on Epona due to these facts.

In other words, as an example, 2m gold can basically get you a fully geared (full EDL including weapons, dg, and other EG gear) EG (lvl 220+) toon on Gwyd with a reasonable fash set... the same 2m on Epona wouldn’t even cover DG BP it I remember my prices correctly.



Oh lord maybe have your example at least be higher numbers lmao I know it wasn't an actual estimate of the price but shh shh
Ashley A - 222 Mage - Novalis - Mabon
000000000000000 - 216 Rogue - Novalis - Mabon
Azona - 210 Druid - Novalis - Mabon

Then some Epona toons yo

Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#35
bob the mage wrote:
Zkills wrote:
bob the mage wrote:How would castle campers make a server active .-. Sure you have more people online, but I’m pretty sure the word “active” tends to refer to people actually doing stuff... unless the word has changed, in which I promise to be totally active this weekend ;)
Like ima be so active, it’ll be as active as Epona’s castle!!


Also the fact that every item in game isn’t for sale at cheap prices doesn’t mean an economy is bad lel, it just means the economy is different... ya lixs might be a tad cheaper, but you only need gold for lixs since everything else is free. Thus relatively, lixs are cheaper on dom clan servers, etc...

You are comparing apples to oranges with no conversion rate in mind, no der your results are going to be skewed :lol:

Activity can easily be measured by how many players are online at any given time of the day. The castle is a good way to read a servers activity because it is the social hub of the game. The more people that are online and active, the more people will gravitate towards the castle to socialize, trade, or do whatever activities are present (dicing and give aways are quite common on Epona). People don’t necessarily have to be doing much, just as long as they’re online. A bunch of people online at any given time not doing much still contributes to the activity of server versus everyone simply logging off after a boss dies leaving areas empty.

In terms of economy, the best way to read a servers Economy is by looking at chest prices. I say that because cheaper chests mean there are a lot of plat buyers which in turn means a large abundance of plat items that are also at a much cheaper price. Eggs, tokens, lixs, sigils, etc. I’ve mentioned quite a few times before that Epona’s Free market heavily contributes to the economy of the server because you can literally buy and sell everything, which gives gold more value, which incentivizes players to buy chests, which drives down the prices on everyday items. A free market is better than a restricted market, think they taught that in economics lol. Most dom servers have seen heavy inflation because there’s simply nothing for people to buy which means less plat buyers. Of course some restrictions are necessary in the real world, but the economics within the game are a million times more simple than the real world and doesn’t have those complications where restrictions would be necessary. So really there’s no reason whatsoever for dom servers/clans to put restrictions on their market other than personal interests/greed.

This is starting to become an over simplified version of classic Cold War democracy vs communism lmao

:lol:
1) If that’s how you want to measure activity, I would call the reading useless as it doesn’t actually affect a servers ability to do anything. That’s fine if that’s how you want to define it, but then you shouldn’t be using it as a metric to say how powerful, successful, etc... a server is. In other words, sitting in castle may give players people to talk to, but past a social aspect it means nothing, and most dom clan servers engage socially via 3rd party apps so nonetheless, the same socialization occurs.
2) you can’t compare an item across two economies like that, they are different. A basic idea of economics is that supply should equal demand, and that is where prices get set. In other words if at 50k a chest I demand 5 chests and at 50k a chest you want to supply me 5 chests, we have reached equilibrium (hypothetical numbers only).
Now this makes it seem like you can just compare chest prices across a server, but that’s jumping the gun. The demand function is a functional of relative utility along your income. In other words, how much you demand of a good is based off how much of that good you want based off how how much would rather have that good compared to other goods (lixs, gear, etc...). This is then constrained by how much you can actually afford.
Let me know if I’ve lost you up to here, but I like to think this makes sense given how we buy stuff, but I know the math terms can complicate it.
So because of this, the actual prices on different servers are based relatively off what else someone could buy, or the opportunity cost.
Because a player on epona needs to think about buying: all their gear, lixs, Lux, plat, etc... whereas on a dom clan server players only need to think about buying lixs and lux and plat (as all gear is “earned” and bought via time rather than gold), we are using two different baskets for comparing utility. Thus even if a player has the same utility function, you would get different numbers because the goods that chests, lixs, or any other nongear item are being compared to are different on both worlds.

In other words, because players on Epona have to buy everything with gold, the actual (nominal) prices have to be lower for each item, because the amount of gold a player possesses is about the same, but because they have to be able to buy so much more, sellers have to sell at lower costs. On dom clan servers prices are higher because lixs are pretty much all people have to buy outside the odd fash set etc... because of this lixs are higher in nominal price. But across both servers I would bet my bottom dollar that real prices are lower on some dom clan servers than on Epona due to these facts.

In other words, as an example, 2m gold can basically get you a fully geared (full EDL including weapons, dg, and other EG gear) EG (lvl 220+) toon on Gwyd with a reasonable fash set... the same 2m on Epona wouldn’t even cover DG BP it I remember my prices correctly.

The amount online measures activity lol. Every single game I know of measures activity that way. Everyone messaging each other on 3rd party apps won’t help the servers case because what really matters when it comes to server activity is the lower level players and how they interpret it. I know most endgame players forget about them and probably don’t give a s**t about them, which explains why a lot of servers are ghost towns throughout the day, but they’re the ones that truly matter and help make a server active. Of course a highly active server obviously means there will be a lot of endgame players because it takes active endgame players to help bring in lower level players. The more low levels you find on a server and the more active the server is, the more likely those players will stay and reach endgame.

I’m ultimately comparing the value of gold across two servers which I can actually do. It’s the currency across the game, it’s not like one server is using Euros while another is using the USD. Gold then obviously translates to items as you need gold to buy items. You can also tell by server xfers which make it more painfully obvious that Epona’s gold has more value than any other server. I xfered a decent amount out of Epona at a 1:5 ratio, it’s insane. So, if you see chests going for 25k on Epona and then look at another server where they’re going for 50k, that would tell you that that Epona gold is more valuable. Why is that? Because every dom server places restrictions onto their own market, which in turn gives players less things to buy, which allows for gold to build up and up and up on players, which causes inflation, devaluing gold on their server because there isn’t enough gold moving around in the economy. Yes supply and demand is involved which strengthens this case. The supply of chests is low because there are not as many people willing to invest in plat because of how worthless gold is, which is where supply fails to meet the demand of chests which raises the prices.

Like I said, a free market is better than a restricted market which is why Epona’s economy is so good. There’s no excuse for that lol
Zkills, Proud general of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers. Server banned for doing PvP in arena.

Can you do the impossible?
Celtic Heroes Ultimate Challenge

Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#36
Zkills wrote:
bob the mage wrote:
Zkills wrote:Activity can easily be measured by how many players are online at any given time of the day. The castle is a good way to read a servers activity because it is the social hub of the game. The more people that are online and active, the more people will gravitate towards the castle to socialize, trade, or do whatever activities are present (dicing and give aways are quite common on Epona). People don’t necessarily have to be doing much, just as long as they’re online. A bunch of people online at any given time not doing much still contributes to the activity of server versus everyone simply logging off after a boss dies leaving areas empty.

In terms of economy, the best way to read a servers Economy is by looking at chest prices. I say that because cheaper chests mean there are a lot of plat buyers which in turn means a large abundance of plat items that are also at a much cheaper price. Eggs, tokens, lixs, sigils, etc. I’ve mentioned quite a few times before that Epona’s Free market heavily contributes to the economy of the server because you can literally buy and sell everything, which gives gold more value, which incentivizes players to buy chests, which drives down the prices on everyday items. A free market is better than a restricted market, think they taught that in economics lol. Most dom servers have seen heavy inflation because there’s simply nothing for people to buy which means less plat buyers. Of course some restrictions are necessary in the real world, but the economics within the game are a million times more simple than the real world and doesn’t have those complications where restrictions would be necessary. So really there’s no reason whatsoever for dom servers/clans to put restrictions on their market other than personal interests/greed.

This is starting to become an over simplified version of classic Cold War democracy vs communism lmao

:lol:
1) If that’s how you want to measure activity, I would call the reading useless as it doesn’t actually affect a servers ability to do anything. That’s fine if that’s how you want to define it, but then you shouldn’t be using it as a metric to say how powerful, successful, etc... a server is. In other words, sitting in castle may give players people to talk to, but past a social aspect it means nothing, and most dom clan servers engage socially via 3rd party apps so nonetheless, the same socialization occurs.
2) you can’t compare an item across two economies like that, they are different. A basic idea of economics is that supply should equal demand, and that is where prices get set. In other words if at 50k a chest I demand 5 chests and at 50k a chest you want to supply me 5 chests, we have reached equilibrium (hypothetical numbers only).
Now this makes it seem like you can just compare chest prices across a server, but that’s jumping the gun. The demand function is a functional of relative utility along your income. In other words, how much you demand of a good is based off how much of that good you want based off how how much would rather have that good compared to other goods (lixs, gear, etc...). This is then constrained by how much you can actually afford.
Let me know if I’ve lost you up to here, but I like to think this makes sense given how we buy stuff, but I know the math terms can complicate it.
So because of this, the actual prices on different servers are based relatively off what else someone could buy, or the opportunity cost.
Because a player on epona needs to think about buying: all their gear, lixs, Lux, plat, etc... whereas on a dom clan server players only need to think about buying lixs and lux and plat (as all gear is “earned” and bought via time rather than gold), we are using two different baskets for comparing utility. Thus even if a player has the same utility function, you would get different numbers because the goods that chests, lixs, or any other nongear item are being compared to are different on both worlds.

In other words, because players on Epona have to buy everything with gold, the actual (nominal) prices have to be lower for each item, because the amount of gold a player possesses is about the same, but because they have to be able to buy so much more, sellers have to sell at lower costs. On dom clan servers prices are higher because lixs are pretty much all people have to buy outside the odd fash set etc... because of this lixs are higher in nominal price. But across both servers I would bet my bottom dollar that real prices are lower on some dom clan servers than on Epona due to these facts.

In other words, as an example, 2m gold can basically get you a fully geared (full EDL including weapons, dg, and other EG gear) EG (lvl 220+) toon on Gwyd with a reasonable fash set... the same 2m on Epona wouldn’t even cover DG BP it I remember my prices correctly.

The amount online measures activity lol. Every single game I know of measures activity that way. Everyone messaging each other on 3rd party apps won’t help the servers case because what really matters when it comes to server activity is the lower level players and how they interpret it. I know most endgame players forget about them and probably don’t give a s**t about them, which explains why a lot of servers are ghost towns throughout the day, but they’re the ones that truly matter and help make a server active. Of course a highly active server obviously means there will be a lot of endgame players because it takes active endgame players to help bring in lower level players. The more low levels you find on a server and the more active the server is, the more likely those players will stay and reach endgame.

I’m ultimately comparing the value of gold across two servers which I can actually do. It’s the currency across the game, it’s not like one server is using Euros while another is using the USD. Gold then obviously translates to items as you need gold to buy items. You can also tell by server xfers which make it more painfully obvious that Epona’s gold has more value than any other server. I xfered a decent amount out of Epona at a 1:5 ratio, it’s insane. So, if you see chests going for 25k on Epona and then look at another server where they’re going for 50k, that would tell you that that Epona gold is more valuable. Why is that? Because every dom server places restrictions onto their own market, which in turn gives players less things to buy, which allows for gold to build up and up and up on players, which causes inflation, devaluing gold on their server because there isn’t enough gold moving around in the economy. Yes supply and demand is involved which strengthens this case. The supply of chests is low because there are not as many people willing to invest in plat because of how worthless gold is, which is where supply fails to meet the demand of chests which raises the prices.

Like I said, a free market is better than a restricted market which is why Epona’s economy is so good. There’s no excuse for that lol

Like I said you can measure activity however you want to, but considering you are banned from participating at bosses it makes sense you would measure it in the only metric not related to bossing or vertical progression.

On the economics note, it is like comparing two different currencies... what do you even think a currency is? Just cuz it has the same name doesn’t mean it has the same properties lel.
It would be like comparing 1920s USD to 2020 USD. Different value, yet same name...

Gold has different value on different servers. On gwyd all I need gold for is fashion, Lux, and lixs. I have no need to ever buy a single piece of gear. So gold is slightly more worthless, thus costs for items that are purchased with gold go up... its money supply and money demand.
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Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#37
Zkills wrote:So, if you see chests going for 25k on Epona and then look at another server where they’re going for 50k, that would tell you that that Epona gold is more valuable.


How about gear prices? Is gear like event lux and quest drops half the price of other servers as well?

The way I see it, it's not as much an issue of valuation, but rather an issue of supply and demand - which isn't necessarily connected to dkp vs free servers. Chests might be 25k on Epona because there are so many people buying and trying to resell them that the chest value plummets. In terms of gear, there are so many people needing gear, that gear prices skyrocket.

On quieter servers it's the opposite - there may not be many people buying plat (for whatever reason), so chest prices go up. On the other hand, gear prices fluctuate a bit more - either things don't sell at all (because the only people getting the items are the ones that need/use them) or they sell for reduced prices, because not as many people need them.

Those do impact the value of gold, sure, but chests aren't quite the best example imo, since that has other factors adjusting its value as well.
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Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#38
Eragon123 wrote:
Zkills wrote:So, if you see chests going for 25k on Epona and then look at another server where they’re going for 50k, that would tell you that that Epona gold is more valuable.


How about gear prices? Is gear like event lux and quest drops half the price of other servers as well?

The way I see it, it's not as much an issue of valuation, but rather an issue of supply and demand - which isn't necessarily connected to dkp vs free servers. Chests might be 25k on Epona because there are so many people buying and trying to resell them that the chest value plummets. In terms of gear, there are so many people needing gear, that gear prices skyrocket.

On quieter servers it's the opposite - there may not be many people buying plat (for whatever reason), so chest prices go up. On the other hand, gear prices fluctuate a bit more - either things don't sell at all (because the only people getting the items are the ones that need/use them) or they sell for reduced prices, because not as many people need them.

Those do impact the value of gold, sure, but chests aren't quite the best example imo, since that has other factors adjusting its value as well.

Wut .-.
Demand functions are a result of utility functions at multiple levels of income. Utility functions compare utility of 2 goods (good x vs say all other goods, or good x vs good y).
In other words, dkp vs free server plays in as on a DKP server say good x is chests, the “all other goods” section will be significantly different then it would be on a “free server” where individuals have to buy all their gear.

In other words .-. It does affect demand.


It also affects money supply etc... but that’s over complicating it .-.
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Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#39
bob the mage wrote:
Zkills wrote:
bob the mage wrote::lol:
1) If that’s how you want to measure activity, I would call the reading useless as it doesn’t actually affect a servers ability to do anything. That’s fine if that’s how you want to define it, but then you shouldn’t be using it as a metric to say how powerful, successful, etc... a server is. In other words, sitting in castle may give players people to talk to, but past a social aspect it means nothing, and most dom clan servers engage socially via 3rd party apps so nonetheless, the same socialization occurs.
2) you can’t compare an item across two economies like that, they are different. A basic idea of economics is that supply should equal demand, and that is where prices get set. In other words if at 50k a chest I demand 5 chests and at 50k a chest you want to supply me 5 chests, we have reached equilibrium (hypothetical numbers only).
Now this makes it seem like you can just compare chest prices across a server, but that’s jumping the gun. The demand function is a functional of relative utility along your income. In other words, how much you demand of a good is based off how much of that good you want based off how how much would rather have that good compared to other goods (lixs, gear, etc...). This is then constrained by how much you can actually afford.
Let me know if I’ve lost you up to here, but I like to think this makes sense given how we buy stuff, but I know the math terms can complicate it.
So because of this, the actual prices on different servers are based relatively off what else someone could buy, or the opportunity cost.
Because a player on epona needs to think about buying: all their gear, lixs, Lux, plat, etc... whereas on a dom clan server players only need to think about buying lixs and lux and plat (as all gear is “earned” and bought via time rather than gold), we are using two different baskets for comparing utility. Thus even if a player has the same utility function, you would get different numbers because the goods that chests, lixs, or any other nongear item are being compared to are different on both worlds.

In other words, because players on Epona have to buy everything with gold, the actual (nominal) prices have to be lower for each item, because the amount of gold a player possesses is about the same, but because they have to be able to buy so much more, sellers have to sell at lower costs. On dom clan servers prices are higher because lixs are pretty much all people have to buy outside the odd fash set etc... because of this lixs are higher in nominal price. But across both servers I would bet my bottom dollar that real prices are lower on some dom clan servers than on Epona due to these facts.

In other words, as an example, 2m gold can basically get you a fully geared (full EDL including weapons, dg, and other EG gear) EG (lvl 220+) toon on Gwyd with a reasonable fash set... the same 2m on Epona wouldn’t even cover DG BP it I remember my prices correctly.

The amount online measures activity lol. Every single game I know of measures activity that way. Everyone messaging each other on 3rd party apps won’t help the servers case because what really matters when it comes to server activity is the lower level players and how they interpret it. I know most endgame players forget about them and probably don’t give a s**t about them, which explains why a lot of servers are ghost towns throughout the day, but they’re the ones that truly matter and help make a server active. Of course a highly active server obviously means there will be a lot of endgame players because it takes active endgame players to help bring in lower level players. The more low levels you find on a server and the more active the server is, the more likely those players will stay and reach endgame.

I’m ultimately comparing the value of gold across two servers which I can actually do. It’s the currency across the game, it’s not like one server is using Euros while another is using the USD. Gold then obviously translates to items as you need gold to buy items. You can also tell by server xfers which make it more painfully obvious that Epona’s gold has more value than any other server. I xfered a decent amount out of Epona at a 1:5 ratio, it’s insane. So, if you see chests going for 25k on Epona and then look at another server where they’re going for 50k, that would tell you that that Epona gold is more valuable. Why is that? Because every dom server places restrictions onto their own market, which in turn gives players less things to buy, which allows for gold to build up and up and up on players, which causes inflation, devaluing gold on their server because there isn’t enough gold moving around in the economy. Yes supply and demand is involved which strengthens this case. The supply of chests is low because there are not as many people willing to invest in plat because of how worthless gold is, which is where supply fails to meet the demand of chests which raises the prices.

Like I said, a free market is better than a restricted market which is why Epona’s economy is so good. There’s no excuse for that lol

Like I said you can measure activity however you want to, but considering you are banned from participating at bosses it makes sense you would measure it in the only metric not related to bossing or vertical progression.

On the economics note, it is like comparing two different currencies... what do you even think a currency is? Just cuz it has the same name doesn’t mean it has the same properties lel.
It would be like comparing 1920s USD to 2020 USD. Different value, yet same name...

Gold has different value on different servers. On gwyd all I need gold for is fashion, Lux, and lixs. I have no need to ever buy a single piece of gear. So gold is slightly more worthless, thus costs for items that are purchased with gold go up... its money supply and money demand.

Well first of all, I’m not even sure if I’m banned anymore lol. Some people tell me I’m not, some people tell me I am... I don’t know what the deal is anymore but I don’t really care either way lol. Epona has 2 pages of players in the castle almost 24/7, and regularly sees 2+ pages of players for any raid boss that gets called, from Hrung to bt. Bossing was the whole reason why I stopped going in the first place, because there were too many people and I was never winning anything lol. I stopped before I was banned, which is why I didn’t care if I was banned when killing Epona nubs in the arena. Epona has a very strong early game which translates to the strongest endgame out of any server.

It’s still the same currency because you can xfer with it. I don’t think you can walk to a bank, hand them a $100 bill from 1980, and have them triple it lol. Gold should have equal value across the board, but it doesn’t because dom servers thought it would be a good idea to place restrictions on their market which threw things off balance. Because of dom servers Epona now has the best economy because all the plat buyers are coming here where gold actually has more value and chests are worth buying, and now the economy on other servers are tanking as a result... some servers have chests going for up to 70k lmao.
Last edited by Zkills on Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LETS MAKE EPONA 2

#40
Eragon123 wrote:
Zkills wrote:So, if you see chests going for 25k on Epona and then look at another server where they’re going for 50k, that would tell you that that Epona gold is more valuable.


How about gear prices? Is gear like event lux and quest drops half the price of other servers as well?

The way I see it, it's not as much an issue of valuation, but rather an issue of supply and demand - which isn't necessarily connected to dkp vs free servers. Chests might be 25k on Epona because there are so many people buying and trying to resell them that the chest value plummets. In terms of gear, there are so many people needing gear, that gear prices skyrocket.

On quieter servers it's the opposite - there may not be many people buying plat (for whatever reason), so chest prices go up. On the other hand, gear prices fluctuate a bit more - either things don't sell at all (because the only people getting the items are the ones that need/use them) or they sell for reduced prices, because not as many people need them.

Those do impact the value of gold, sure, but chests aren't quite the best example imo, since that has other factors adjusting its value as well.

Lux is a different story because it has a set price which remains constant across every server. However I do believe some of the better lux items such as reaper rings and wyld ammys (lux that’s considered more valuable than its shop price) are cheaper than most servers. Never really paid attention to it.

It’s a dkp vs free server thing because a free market and a restricted market heavily influences how many people are willing to invest into plat. It’s really hard to even compare gear prices of a free server to a dom server because a free market is so so so much more different than a restricted market. I’m mostly talking about the value of gold/chests here but ultimately yes, it is supply and demand when it comes to gear. Gear is more cheaper on Rhiannon than it is on Epona simply because Epona has a higher demand for items because of how many players there are.
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