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Re: Ice Dragon or Ice Phoenix?

#11
bob the mage wrote:Dragon 100%
-) crit skill bump has a noticeable impact on crits. This isn’t alone enough to justify the pet but does go to amplify what it can do
-) skill - the skill is actually pretty powerful and does consistent decent damage.

Phoenix on the other hand doesn’t really have too much going for it past the stats. The small focus bump doesn’t do anything at EG, as any EG mage most likely has more than 2500 focus and is thus past the point of diminishing return. Secondly, the small “lure” “bump “ isn’t drastic enough to help dps, and certainly doesn’t increase dps by more than dragon does dps. Only exception I can think to this is the caustic Phoenix for melee dps like warriors.

Overall how I usually split the difference is if you want to go for top notch dps, nothing beats the dragon in the game atm, it’s the all around best, but if you are more casual of a player or you prefer support roles or even a hybrid split play style, the Phoenix provides good stats and is a decent pet for support and dps play styles.
I personally prefer DPS mage so I would choose dragon, but both are decent options.


I've heard/read quite a few times that the crit skill bump actually has no noticeable 'umph' if someone already has their crit skill ability maxed. My question though is can more than 1 person use the dragon skills of the same type at the same time?
Zyz 220 Druid
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Re: Ice Dragon or Ice Phoenix?

#13
Dark Kitty wrote:
Zyz wrote:My question though is can more than 1 person use the dragon skills of the same type at the same time?

The initial damage yes, but the dot will depend on whoever has the higher skill level - which is not bad considering the dot is only base damage.

On this note as well, the main damage aspect to the dragon is the initial burst, with the dot being more of a convienent side effect.

Zyz wrote:
bob the mage wrote:Dragon 100%
-) crit skill bump has a noticeable impact on crits. This isn’t alone enough to justify the pet but does go to amplify what it can do
-) skill - the skill is actually pretty powerful and does consistent decent damage.

Phoenix on the other hand doesn’t really have too much going for it past the stats. The small focus bump doesn’t do anything at EG, as any EG mage most likely has more than 2500 focus and is thus past the point of diminishing return. Secondly, the small “lure” “bump “ isn’t drastic enough to help dps, and certainly doesn’t increase dps by more than dragon does dps. Only exception I can think to this is the caustic Phoenix for melee dps like warriors.

Overall how I usually split the difference is if you want to go for top notch dps, nothing beats the dragon in the game atm, it’s the all around best, but if you are more casual of a player or you prefer support roles or even a hybrid split play style, the Phoenix provides good stats and is a decent pet for support and dps play styles.
I personally prefer DPS mage so I would choose dragon, but both are decent options.


I've heard/read quite a few times that the crit skill bump actually has no noticeable 'umph' if someone already has their crit skill ability maxed. My question though is can more than 1 person use the dragon skills of the same type at the same time?

From my personal expierence and from what i’ve Read and seen, on mobs of your level or higher it can have a decent effect. It isn’t high enough where that attribute makes it the best pet on its own right, but it is still an aspect worth regarding.
The best aspect of the dragon is the skill, with the dot and crit bump being cool extras.

As I said above though, both pets are good, just in different areas of the mage world.
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Re: Ice Dragon or Ice Phoenix?

#14
Apples-Bele wrote:
Ventius wrote:If your clan/server doesnt have any/many ice phoenix then the phoenix will be the biggest dps boost for you without a doubt. If your server has a few active ice phoenix to where there is a regular lure on bosses then the dragon is the one for you.

Dragon is purely a dps pet where the phoenix is a far more well rounded pet. I would like to say that from my experience the crit boost only has a fairly minimal increase

I would be interested to know what a max ability phoenix skill hits and how it compares to a phoenix. I cant imagine that the damage differs too greatly

The DPS gap in the skills is actually quite large since the Phoenix maxes at around 1300 dmg (1920 ability and at 1260 dmg) every 25sec, VS dragon around 2k? Every 15sec. Not really sure how poison dragon vs Phoenix compare though, I think poison dmg Phoenix has slightly nerfed dmg but I’m not certain.
Phoenix is obviously better though because of the lure, I’d go with it always even if your clan already has several of that colour

My pvp alt has both the lv2 poison dragon and lv2 red phoenix, and the phoenix has a higher initial hit, is this not the same with elemental ones? Also, random theory, if someone else can give some experience. Maybe the dragon is more effected by ability, and what I'm experiencing is a low lv exception, I doubt it, but I'll say so for the sake of the topic.

Also, my vote goes for the phoenix.

We mages live on lure, something that makes our lure even better is great for bosses/enemies we cant fully reduce, and knowing how armor is less effective per point the more you have, the opposite is true, the more you reduce, the more effective the reduction is(unless you hit 0).
Last edited by Furyion on Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ice Dragon or Ice Phoenix?

#15
Furyion wrote:
Apples-Bele wrote:
Ventius wrote:If your clan/server doesnt have any/many ice phoenix then the phoenix will be the biggest dps boost for you without a doubt. If your server has a few active ice phoenix to where there is a regular lure on bosses then the dragon is the one for you.

Dragon is purely a dps pet where the phoenix is a far more well rounded pet. I would like to say that from my experience the crit boost only has a fairly minimal increase

I would be interested to know what a max ability phoenix skill hits and how it compares to a phoenix. I cant imagine that the damage differs too greatly

The DPS gap in the skills is actually quite large since the Phoenix maxes at around 1300 dmg (1920 ability and at 1260 dmg) every 25sec, VS dragon around 2k? Every 15sec. Not really sure how poison dragon vs Phoenix compare though, I think poison dmg Phoenix has slightly nerfed dmg but I’m not certain.
Phoenix is obviously better though because of the lure, I’d go with it always even if your clan already has several of that colour

My pvp alt has both the lv2 poison dragon and lv2 red phoenix, and the phoenix has a higher initial hit, is this not the same with elemental ones?

Also, my vote goes for the phoenix.

We mages live on lure, something that makes our lure even better is great for bosses/enemies we cant fully reduce, and knowing how armor is less effective per point the more you have, the opposite is true, the more you reduce, the more effective the reduction is(unless you hit 0).

For sake of the discussion, are your Phoenix and dragon abilities equal, and if not how far apart are they?
From all my experiences the phoenix does less damage, but is cheaper and has a more specific skill.
I still see and from my testing have seen the dragon as the paramount mage DPS pet for pure raw DPS, but would be interested in seeing the differences between the two lower versions you have with regards to their corresponding ability levels.
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BobsYourUncle 222 Fire Mage

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Re: Ice Dragon or Ice Phoenix?

#16
bob the mage wrote:
Furyion wrote:
Apples-Bele wrote:The DPS gap in the skills is actually quite large since the Phoenix maxes at around 1300 dmg (1920 ability and at 1260 dmg) every 25sec, VS dragon around 2k? Every 15sec. Not really sure how poison dragon vs Phoenix compare though, I think poison dmg Phoenix has slightly nerfed dmg but I’m not certain.
Phoenix is obviously better though because of the lure, I’d go with it always even if your clan already has several of that colour

My pvp alt has both the lv2 poison dragon and lv2 red phoenix, and the phoenix has a higher initial hit, is this not the same with elemental ones?

Also, my vote goes for the phoenix.

We mages live on lure, something that makes our lure even better is great for bosses/enemies we cant fully reduce, and knowing how armor is less effective per point the more you have, the opposite is true, the more you reduce, the more effective the reduction is(unless you hit 0).

For sake of the discussion, are your Phoenix and dragon abilities equal, and if not how far apart are they?
From all my experiences the phoenix does less damage, but is cheaper and has a more specific skill.
I still see and from my testing have seen the dragon as the paramount mage DPS pet for pure raw DPS, but would be interested in seeing the differences between the two lower versions you have with regards to their corresponding ability levels.

Back when I used my dragon for pvp, I had the ability at 270, when I bought the phoenix, I leveled the ability up, and I took note of the damage around 260-280. It was 90ish vs 110ish initial hit from my memory.
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Re: Ice Dragon or Ice Phoenix?

#17
Dragon has a 15 sec cd while phoenix has 25 second cd. At max ability the dragon does around 2000 damage as opposed to the phoenix that caps out at around 1500.

Over 15 mins you will cast the dragon skill 24 more times than the phoenix skill. This is all well and good and heavily favours the dragon however the 15 second -400 lure is not accounted for. Imo the lure makes up for this both in personal dps as well as overall dps at the raid.

As has been stated, if you want to get kills and that is your sole intention then get the dragon. Otherwise the phoenix is the way to go as it has far more use and similarly if you dont have many phoenix on your server id use it over the drag for the lure aswell
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Re: Ice Dragon or Ice Phoenix?

#20
Artio wrote:I’ve personally gone for a Phoenix since my server had none at the time but a dragon is definitely better if your server already has 3 or more at every raid

Agreed on that. Phoenix definitely better for the clan on raids. Individual Dps though, dragon is better.
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