Celtic Heroes

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Injustice to rangers

#1
So recently, despite thinking about how bad the dragonlord sword is, I started to think if dragonlord ranger weapons and dragonlord rogue weapons match up. My results were astonishing! Now, I am going to write this post, then you may have to look at the pictures in a random order, but Im going to try to make this as simple and as clear as possible. First I want to start off with, everyone knows how bad rangers have been hit compared to rogues on skills and dps. Now I want to emphasize the toll the auto dmg is taking compared to rogues. All these calculations are based off end game, Dragonlord weapons. So this is what I have got, and the process it took to get this info:

Rangers auto dmg with dragonlord bow is 155, with a speed of 2860.

Rogues auto dmg with dragonlord dagger is 110, with a speed of 1850.

First what I did was that I took these 2 speeds, and found the LCM (least common multiple). I found that the LCM between these 2 in speed was 529,100. I took this number, and I divided it by the speed of the ranger dragonlord mainhand, and I got that rangers hit 185 times in this duration. I then took the same number, and divided it by the speed of the rogue dagger, and then I got 286 hits in this time. So the rogue dagger hits 286 times every 185 ranger hits. This is where it gets interesting! If you take the auto dmg of rogue rondel (110), and multiply it by the number of hits you output, you get a number of 31,460 dmg without the offhand. I then took the auto dmg of rangers bow (155) and I multiplied it by the amount of times it would shoot (185), and my result was 28,675 damage. Wow. In the same amount of time a ranger hits 28,675 dmg, a rogue hits 31,360 dmg. Thats a 2.785 damage difference, just with the mainhand. I then took this number of damage, and started to multiply the number of pierce it would take by the number of hits it lands to find out the damage that it would require to even match up with dragonlord dagger, and found that it would take 185 pierce on the bow. My proof to this is 185 x 185 is 529,100, compared to 185 x 155, which is only 443,300. I decided I would go a bit further. As you can see in the pictures below, the stats of damage of both the dragonlord quiver and dragonlord rondel are the same, I added the 35 dmg to both the dagger and bow. The bow ends up with only 190 pierce, while the dagger only ends up with 145 pierce. I then took the same number of hits that they would do and multiplied this new number with the number of hits. 145 x 286 is 41,470. The bow hits this in the same time: 185 x 190 is 35,150 dmg. Wow, a whopping 6,320 dmg despite the fact its only 35 pierce more. (41,470 - 35,150 is 6,320). Why does a class, that is "balanced to rogue" affected not only by the skills they have, but also the auto damage. Why is this fair?
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Belenus-
Assassinprime- lvl102 Ranger
Ravenwing-lvl68 Mage
Betaprime2-lvl68 Warrior
S0uth-lvl61 Rogue
Gwydion-
AtlasPrime-lvl180+ warrior
Image

Re: Injustice to rangers

#2
More pics
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Belenus-
Assassinprime- lvl102 Ranger
Ravenwing-lvl68 Mage
Betaprime2-lvl68 Warrior
S0uth-lvl61 Rogue
Gwydion-
AtlasPrime-lvl180+ warrior
Image

Re: Injustice to rangers

#3
More pics
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image.jpg (203.3 KiB) Viewed 1773 times
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image.jpg (210.63 KiB) Viewed 1773 times
Belenus-
Assassinprime- lvl102 Ranger
Ravenwing-lvl68 Mage
Betaprime2-lvl68 Warrior
S0uth-lvl61 Rogue
Gwydion-
AtlasPrime-lvl180+ warrior
Image

Re: Injustice to rangers

#4
More pics
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image.jpg (200 KiB) Viewed 1772 times
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image.jpg (181.48 KiB) Viewed 1772 times
Belenus-
Assassinprime- lvl102 Ranger
Ravenwing-lvl68 Mage
Betaprime2-lvl68 Warrior
S0uth-lvl61 Rogue
Gwydion-
AtlasPrime-lvl180+ warrior
Image

Re: Injustice to rangers

#5
I hope I was clear enough and that you can find all the calculations fine here, but as you can see, rangers skills are not only worse, but even the auto dmg. Thanks for taking your time to read this post, hope it doesn't get ignored
Last edited by xvanguardx on Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Quiver
image.jpg (215.68 KiB) Viewed 1769 times
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Rondel
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The mainhand auto damage difference.
image.jpg (211.94 KiB) Viewed 1772 times
Belenus-
Assassinprime- lvl102 Ranger
Ravenwing-lvl68 Mage
Betaprime2-lvl68 Warrior
S0uth-lvl61 Rogue
Gwydion-
AtlasPrime-lvl180+ warrior
Image

Re: Injustice to rangers

#6
when heroic hasted, bow and dagger hit at the same speed though due to cap
so yes, i would be for an increase in bow dmg if that cap was lifted
pigman, with the fury of the pigs and the mind of a man
level 210+ rogue
Morrigan
Avalon
put your pants on, we're going out

Re: Injustice to rangers

#7
Maybe instead of complaining about the damage difference, you should realize that 'Rogue' and 'Ranger' are two different things... Rogues are meant to have the best Dps. That's a given.. And when you talk about how 'hard' rangers are hit with bad skills, I don't see any rogues that have a bolas, light heal, camo or entangle... They are two seperate classes, why would you even want the same dps? If you want the dps of a rogue, make a rogue maybe.. Sorry but this post made no sense, you can't compare two classes that are completely different that have different skills and build types

Re: Injustice to rangers

#9
Yes rogues do more damage ... Duh.

Rogues also sustain and suffer more melee damage in boss fights. Rangers get to attack from a distance but rogues don't. Rogues are the only class who doesn't receive a slow/stop spell. Shield bash, freeze, roots, bolas,

Rangers would be way too overpower if they did all the Dps that rogues do at a distance and eith dome of the abilities in their arsenal.

Every MMORPG has a class that outdps most others in melee. But at a disadvantage. I promise you a rogue will suffer more deaths than a ranger. If you increase the rangers dps to match that of a rogue then you should increase the survivability of a rogue.

Not a well thought out argument in my opinion.
World - Gwydion
Clan - Relentless
Relentlessly killing Bloodthorn in search of the hidden helmet that is buried deep in the coding of RNG. We would love to see you join us on our quest for the hidden helmet.

Re: Injustice to rangers

#10
xvanguardx wrote:So recently, despite thinking about how bad the dragonlord sword is, I started to think if dragonlord ranger weapons and dragonlord rogue weapons match up. My results were astonishing! Now, I am going to write this post, then you may have to look at the pictures in a random order, but Im going to try to make this as simple and as clear as possible. First I want to start off with, everyone knows how bad rangers have been hit compared to rogues on skills and dps. Now I want to emphasize the toll the auto dmg is taking compared to rogues. All these calculations are based off end game, Dragonlord weapons. So this is what I have got, and the process it took to get this info:

Rangers auto dmg with dragonlord bow is 155, with a speed of 2860.

Rogues auto dmg with dragonlord dagger is 110, with a speed of 1850.

First what I did was that I took these 2 speeds, and found the LCM (least common multiple). I found that the LCM between these 2 in speed was 529,100. I took this number, and I divided it by the speed of the ranger dragonlord mainhand, and I got that rangers hit 185 times in this duration. I then took the same number, and divided it by the speed of the rogue dagger, and then I got 286 hits in this time. So the rogue dagger hits 286 times every 185 ranger hits. This is where it gets interesting! If you take the auto dmg of rogue rondel (110), and multiply it by the number of hits you output, you get a number of 31,460 dmg without the offhand. I then took the auto dmg of rangers bow (155) and I multiplied it by the amount of times it would shoot (185), and my result was 28,675 damage. Wow. In the same amount of time a ranger hits 28,675 dmg, a rogue hits 31,360 dmg. Thats a 2.785 damage difference, just with the mainhand. I then took this number of damage, and started to multiply the number of pierce it would take by the number of hits it lands to find out the damage that it would require to even match up with dragonlord dagger, and found that it would take 185 pierce on the bow. My proof to this is 185 x 185 is 529,100, compared to 185 x 155, which is only 443,300. I decided I would go a bit further. As you can see in the pictures below, the stats of damage of both the dragonlord quiver and dragonlord rondel are the same, I added the 35 dmg to both the dagger and bow. The bow ends up with only 190 pierce, while the dagger only ends up with 145 pierce. I then took the same number of hits that they would do and multiplied this new number with the number of hits. 145 x 286 is 41,470. The bow hits this in the same time: 185 x 190 is 35,150 dmg. Wow, a whopping 6,320 dmg despite the fact its only 35 pierce more. (41,470 - 35,150 is 6,320). Why does a class, that is "balanced to rogue" affected not only by the skills they have, but also the auto damage. Why is this fair?

Your math is exaggerated, and you also don't account for haste effects or the speed cap.

Ranger pierce damage on bow is 41% higher than rogue pierce damage on dagger.
Ranger attack speed on bow is 54% slower than rogue attack speed on dagger.

Ranger bow DPS is 8% lower than rogues dagger DPS without haste. You count hundreds of auto attacks, which totals up to thousands of damage.

On heroic haste, bow still does 41% more pierce damage but is only 12% slower than dagger. Due to the speed cap, bow DPS is 26% higher than dagger DPS on heroic haste.

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