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Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:47 pm
by Mind
Wolfenstien wrote:
Perky wrote:Im using a Void blast wand with a Godly hoarfrost charm, Godly mord blast brace and Godly necro blast brace. I can’t complain, I love it.

Sounds like a blast

That was cold.

Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:08 am
by bob the mage
CD swaps have been shown to not always be the best. Most of the time it results in lower DPS over a 5-15 minutes period of time than just leaving CDR braces on.
For one skill it works, but when you do it for all skills it gets messy.
All in all a lot of factors go into whether or not it is optimal for your individual toon:
-) do you multilog?
-) device? (Device lag/screen size)
-) lag
-) what would you be swapping (sometimes the gain is so small the mistakes can make the gain nullified).

This is one of those things where there is no one right answer for all toons and it largely depends on the individual players. Each player needs to run their own tests and optimize their build off what they are capable of doing.
The math will always say one thing, numbers are what they are, but at the end of the day a person has to manually press the buttons to use the skills and human error will always be a factor. Thus, while doing the math is 100% necessary, it doesn’t give the whole picture and actual tests in game are needed in the end.
I played a fire mage, and all my in game tests showed a drastic loss in DPS from extra hotswapping due to how many skills I was utilizing, and as such I determined that ring hotswaps were the best for how I played my mage, not to mention I was usually trilogged (cuz arawn had massive shortage of players then).

I never really played an ice mage and I default to Krummy’s expertise as he has poured more time into the class than anyone else so far, and all of his tests point to CDR hotswaps being disadvantageous for ice mages, but if your tests point otherwise then you should do it!

Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:00 am
by Foool
bob the mage wrote:CD swaps have been shown to not always be the best. Most of the time it results in lower DPS over a 5-15 minutes period of time than just leaving CDR braces on.
For one skill it works, but when you do it for all skills it gets messy.
All in all a lot of factors go into whether or not it is optimal for your individual toon:
-) do you multilog?
-) device? (Device lag/screen size)
-) lag
-) what would you be swapping (sometimes the gain is so small the mistakes can make the gain nullified).

This is one of those things where there is no one right answer for all toons and it largely depends on the individual players. Each player needs to run their own tests and optimize their build off what they are capable of doing.
The math will always say one thing, numbers are what they are, but at the end of the day a person has to manually press the buttons to use the skills and human error will always be a factor. Thus, while doing the math is 100% necessary, it doesn’t give the whole picture and actual tests in game are needed in the end.
I played a fire mage, and all my in game tests showed a drastic loss in DPS from extra hotswapping due to how many skills I was utilizing, and as such I determined that ring hotswaps were the best for how I played my mage, not to mention I was usually trilogged (cuz arawn had massive shortage of players then).

I never really played an ice mage and I default to Krummy’s expertise as he has poured more time into the class than anyone else so far, and all of his tests point to CDR hotswaps being disadvantageous for ice mages, but if your tests point otherwise then you should do it!


Corrupt is a warrior, he makes ludicrous suggestions across all the class forums based on information he has read here but has little actual experience with, so he is constantly making impractical (swapping) suggestions because they look good on paper. Perhaps one day when he no longer has that snobbish attitude and inflated ego he may actually learn something.

Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:16 pm
by bob the mage
Foool wrote:
bob the mage wrote:CD swaps have been shown to not always be the best. Most of the time it results in lower DPS over a 5-15 minutes period of time than just leaving CDR braces on.
For one skill it works, but when you do it for all skills it gets messy.
All in all a lot of factors go into whether or not it is optimal for your individual toon:
-) do you multilog?
-) device? (Device lag/screen size)
-) lag
-) what would you be swapping (sometimes the gain is so small the mistakes can make the gain nullified).

This is one of those things where there is no one right answer for all toons and it largely depends on the individual players. Each player needs to run their own tests and optimize their build off what they are capable of doing.
The math will always say one thing, numbers are what they are, but at the end of the day a person has to manually press the buttons to use the skills and human error will always be a factor. Thus, while doing the math is 100% necessary, it doesn’t give the whole picture and actual tests in game are needed in the end.
I played a fire mage, and all my in game tests showed a drastic loss in DPS from extra hotswapping due to how many skills I was utilizing, and as such I determined that ring hotswaps were the best for how I played my mage, not to mention I was usually trilogged (cuz arawn had massive shortage of players then).

I never really played an ice mage and I default to Krummy’s expertise as he has poured more time into the class than anyone else so far, and all of his tests point to CDR hotswaps being disadvantageous for ice mages, but if your tests point otherwise then you should do it!


Corrupt is a warrior, he makes ludicrous suggestions across all the class forums based on information he has read here but has little actual experience with, so he is constantly making impractical (swapping) suggestions because they look good on paper. Perhaps one day when he no longer has that snobbish attitude and inflated ego he may actually learn something.

Even across mages there are some who will blindly say more swapping is always better. I know that among EG ice mages CDR swapping is very popular and among fire mages tertiary swaps are also popular just because it’s commonly perceived that more will always be better.

For rangers, wars, and even to an extent, rogues, brace and ammy swaps along with rings work very well, but these classes also have very limited skill spam compared to mages and Druids who are always in cast of a skill.


That aside, I have to agree, although I am strawmanning here, if you don’t play a mage and or you haven’t taken the time to do the due testing, please don’t act like you have :P

Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:37 am
by Corrupt
Foool wrote:
bob the mage wrote:CD swaps have been shown to not always be the best. Most of the time it results in lower DPS over a 5-15 minutes period of time than just leaving CDR braces on.
For one skill it works, but when you do it for all skills it gets messy.
All in all a lot of factors go into whether or not it is optimal for your individual toon:
-) do you multilog?
-) device? (Device lag/screen size)
-) lag
-) what would you be swapping (sometimes the gain is so small the mistakes can make the gain nullified).

This is one of those things where there is no one right answer for all toons and it largely depends on the individual players. Each player needs to run their own tests and optimize their build off what they are capable of doing.
The math will always say one thing, numbers are what they are, but at the end of the day a person has to manually press the buttons to use the skills and human error will always be a factor. Thus, while doing the math is 100% necessary, it doesn’t give the whole picture and actual tests in game are needed in the end.
I played a fire mage, and all my in game tests showed a drastic loss in DPS from extra hotswapping due to how many skills I was utilizing, and as such I determined that ring hotswaps were the best for how I played my mage, not to mention I was usually trilogged (cuz arawn had massive shortage of players then).

I never really played an ice mage and I default to Krummy’s expertise as he has poured more time into the class than anyone else so far, and all of his tests point to CDR hotswaps being disadvantageous for ice mages, but if your tests point otherwise then you should do it!


Corrupt is a warrior, he makes ludicrous suggestions across all the class forums based on information he has read here but has little actual experience with, so he is constantly making impractical (swapping) suggestions because they look good on paper. Perhaps one day when he no longer has that snobbish attitude and inflated ego he may actually learn something.

Clearly you know nothing about me haha. I have had mages in which i've CD swapped braces before lol. Plus to get the cooldown on both shards and blast you only need to cd swap one brace which really isn't hard. In fact, I have played every class and mages are the class you can be the most inefficient on CD swaps as you don't lose autos if you mistime the swaps slightly (you always auto with hotswapped gear for one auto if you instaswap back). Before you criticise i would recommend doing your homework bud

Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:53 pm
by Zyz
Corrupt wrote:
Foool wrote:
bob the mage wrote:CD swaps have been shown to not always be the best. Most of the time it results in lower DPS over a 5-15 minutes period of time than just leaving CDR braces on.
For one skill it works, but when you do it for all skills it gets messy.
All in all a lot of factors go into whether or not it is optimal for your individual toon:
-) do you multilog?
-) device? (Device lag/screen size)
-) lag
-) what would you be swapping (sometimes the gain is so small the mistakes can make the gain nullified).

This is one of those things where there is no one right answer for all toons and it largely depends on the individual players. Each player needs to run their own tests and optimize their build off what they are capable of doing.
The math will always say one thing, numbers are what they are, but at the end of the day a person has to manually press the buttons to use the skills and human error will always be a factor. Thus, while doing the math is 100% necessary, it doesn’t give the whole picture and actual tests in game are needed in the end.
I played a fire mage, and all my in game tests showed a drastic loss in DPS from extra hotswapping due to how many skills I was utilizing, and as such I determined that ring hotswaps were the best for how I played my mage, not to mention I was usually trilogged (cuz arawn had massive shortage of players then).

I never really played an ice mage and I default to Krummy’s expertise as he has poured more time into the class than anyone else so far, and all of his tests point to CDR hotswaps being disadvantageous for ice mages, but if your tests point otherwise then you should do it!


Corrupt is a warrior, he makes ludicrous suggestions across all the class forums based on information he has read here but has little actual experience with, so he is constantly making impractical (swapping) suggestions because they look good on paper. Perhaps one day when he no longer has that snobbish attitude and inflated ego he may actually learn something.

Clearly you know nothing about me haha. I have had mages in which i've CD swapped braces before lol. Plus to get the cooldown on both shards and blast you only need to cd swap one brace which really isn't hard. In fact, I have played every class and mages are the class you can be the most inefficient on CD swaps as you don't lose autos if you mistime the swaps slightly (you always auto with hotswapped gear for one auto if you instaswap back). Before you criticise i would recommend doing your homework bud


If you're running 3-4 damage skills already with cooldown items, trying to hotswap cd items can reduce your dps. Cd swapping is all situational and, frankly, I find it too much 'work' which ruins the fun of the game

Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:11 pm
by Foool
Corrupt wrote:
Foool wrote:
bob the mage wrote:CD swaps have been shown to not always be the best. Most of the time it results in lower DPS over a 5-15 minutes period of time than just leaving CDR braces on.
For one skill it works, but when you do it for all skills it gets messy.
All in all a lot of factors go into whether or not it is optimal for your individual toon:
-) do you multilog?
-) device? (Device lag/screen size)
-) lag
-) what would you be swapping (sometimes the gain is so small the mistakes can make the gain nullified).

This is one of those things where there is no one right answer for all toons and it largely depends on the individual players. Each player needs to run their own tests and optimize their build off what they are capable of doing.
The math will always say one thing, numbers are what they are, but at the end of the day a person has to manually press the buttons to use the skills and human error will always be a factor. Thus, while doing the math is 100% necessary, it doesn’t give the whole picture and actual tests in game are needed in the end.
I played a fire mage, and all my in game tests showed a drastic loss in DPS from extra hotswapping due to how many skills I was utilizing, and as such I determined that ring hotswaps were the best for how I played my mage, not to mention I was usually trilogged (cuz arawn had massive shortage of players then).

I never really played an ice mage and I default to Krummy’s expertise as he has poured more time into the class than anyone else so far, and all of his tests point to CDR hotswaps being disadvantageous for ice mages, but if your tests point otherwise then you should do it!


Corrupt is a warrior, he makes ludicrous suggestions across all the class forums based on information he has read here but has little actual experience with, so he is constantly making impractical (swapping) suggestions because they look good on paper. Perhaps one day when he no longer has that snobbish attitude and inflated ego he may actually learn something.

Clearly you know nothing about me haha. I have had mages in which i've CD swapped braces before lol. Plus to get the cooldown on both shards and blast you only need to cd swap one brace which really isn't hard. In fact, I have played every class and mages are the class you can be the most inefficient on CD swaps as you don't lose autos if you mistime the swaps slightly (you always auto with hotswapped gear for one auto if you instaswap back). Before you criticise i would recommend doing your homework bud


Congrats on hotswapping a brace on a 180 mage, definitely best dps mage around.

Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:01 pm
by bob the mage
Zyz wrote:
Corrupt wrote:
Foool wrote:
Corrupt is a warrior, he makes ludicrous suggestions across all the class forums based on information he has read here but has little actual experience with, so he is constantly making impractical (swapping) suggestions because they look good on paper. Perhaps one day when he no longer has that snobbish attitude and inflated ego he may actually learn something.

Clearly you know nothing about me haha. I have had mages in which i've CD swapped braces before lol. Plus to get the cooldown on both shards and blast you only need to cd swap one brace which really isn't hard. In fact, I have played every class and mages are the class you can be the most inefficient on CD swaps as you don't lose autos if you mistime the swaps slightly (you always auto with hotswapped gear for one auto if you instaswap back). Before you criticise i would recommend doing your homework bud


If you're running 3-4 damage skills already with cooldown items, trying to hotswap cd items can reduce your dps. Cd swapping is all situational and, frankly, I find it too much 'work' which ruins the fun of the game

Basically this.
Rangers get way more out of hotswapping braces because of how few skills they spam for DPS, same for wars due to CD times. Whiles CDR gear has the biggest impact on DPS for mages, CD swapping can have the biggest negative impact on DPS as well as the biggest positive impact. The issue is the chance for DPS reduction usually outweighs any gained benefit which is why most EG mages that have truly tested it out and counted total DPS over a time range report getting much lower DPS when they CD swap verse keeping 2 CDR braces.
Also not to mention most mage braces are garbage except for CDR ones, so it’s not like there is some super OP gain unlike a ranger hotswapping off an op af brace to get in 2 doubles during quiv skill.

Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:32 pm
by Corrupt
bob the mage wrote:
Zyz wrote:
Corrupt wrote:Clearly you know nothing about me haha. I have had mages in which i've CD swapped braces before lol. Plus to get the cooldown on both shards and blast you only need to cd swap one brace which really isn't hard. In fact, I have played every class and mages are the class you can be the most inefficient on CD swaps as you don't lose autos if you mistime the swaps slightly (you always auto with hotswapped gear for one auto if you instaswap back). Before you criticise i would recommend doing your homework bud


If you're running 3-4 damage skills already with cooldown items, trying to hotswap cd items can reduce your dps. Cd swapping is all situational and, frankly, I find it too much 'work' which ruins the fun of the game

Basically this.
Rangers get way more out of hotswapping braces because of how few skills they spam for DPS, same for wars due to CD times. Whiles CDR gear has the biggest impact on DPS for mages, CD swapping can have the biggest negative impact on DPS as well as the biggest positive impact. The issue is the chance for DPS reduction usually outweighs any gained benefit which is why most EG mages that have truly tested it out and counted total DPS over a time range report getting much lower DPS when they CD swap verse keeping 2 CDR braces.
Also not to mention most mage braces are garbage except for CDR ones, so it’s not like there is some super OP gain unlike a ranger hotswapping off an op af brace to get in 2 doubles during quiv skill.

THe mage I had used void fab skull, royal firestorm CD brace and then a fb MORD brace and I would CD swap ice shards. I would only do the swaps for shards recast when I didn’t have a FB or firestorm ready so really it was only a dps gain

Re: Gelebron Wand?

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:22 pm
by bob the mage
Corrupt wrote:
bob the mage wrote:
Zyz wrote:
If you're running 3-4 damage skills already with cooldown items, trying to hotswap cd items can reduce your dps. Cd swapping is all situational and, frankly, I find it too much 'work' which ruins the fun of the game

Basically this.
Rangers get way more out of hotswapping braces because of how few skills they spam for DPS, same for wars due to CD times. Whiles CDR gear has the biggest impact on DPS for mages, CD swapping can have the biggest negative impact on DPS as well as the biggest positive impact. The issue is the chance for DPS reduction usually outweighs any gained benefit which is why most EG mages that have truly tested it out and counted total DPS over a time range report getting much lower DPS when they CD swap verse keeping 2 CDR braces.
Also not to mention most mage braces are garbage except for CDR ones, so it’s not like there is some super OP gain unlike a ranger hotswapping off an op af brace to get in 2 doubles during quiv skill.

THe mage I had used void fab skull, royal firestorm CD brace and then a fb MORD brace and I would CD swap ice shards. I would only do the swaps for shards recast when I didn’t have a FB or firestorm ready so really it was only a dps gain

When I played my old fire mage I never really had a moment to do a swap like that since I ran incinerate utilized my void wand skill, edl grim, Mount skill, and dragon on top of shards, storm, and bolt, not to mention lure and attune plus I was usually dual or trilogged on top of that :lol:

To each their own, but for EG DPS fire mages CD swapping can hurt quickly as with running 4 base damage skills plus 4+ extra skills from add ons and then buffs and lures it gets to be a bit much and can lead to heavy overlap and a DPS loss to main fire skills. With how fast fire skills CD every second is a higher share of damage compared to a second of one for an ice mage and thus overlap due to excessive swapping will effect fire mages far more than ice mages.