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Re: Any chance the game will ever be less platinum based?

#21
Dark Kitty wrote:
Robert wrote:
Dark Kitty wrote:If you make a new topic I can show you why it's the second one but if you don't care then all you have to know is that it's the second one lol

No, it’s not.

Following your logic, if a 30% reduction in attack speed is calculated as x/1.3 then 50% reduction in attack speed would be calculated as x/1.5. Rather than x*0.7 and x*0.5.

Yes x/1.5 would be how you would calculate a 50% haste. The way you did it is that you treated attack delay as attack speed (rate at which you attack). The problem is that they are two different entities and have to be treated as such. You can’t just multiply it by .7 when you use a 30% haste.

The formula that I used was derived from changing the attack delay to attack rate and changing it back after applying haste.

Following your calculation if you use a 100% haste you would multiply 0 with x which is not the case. You would multiply it by 1/2 because having something that’s 100% faster means that the rate is doubled. With your formula the attack speed would approach infinity.

Except Attack speed is hard capped at 1100.
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Re: Any chance the game will ever be less platinum based?

#22
Dark Kitty wrote:
Robert wrote:
Dark Kitty wrote:If you make a new topic I can show you why it's the second one but if you don't care then all you have to know is that it's the second one lol

No, it’s not.

Following your logic, if a 30% reduction in attack speed is calculated as x/1.3 then 50% reduction in attack speed would be calculated as x/1.5. Rather than x*0.7 and x*0.5.

Yes x/1.5 would be how you would calculate a 50% haste. The way you did it is that you treated attack delay as attack speed (rate at which you attack). The problem is that they are two different entities and have to be treated as such. You can’t just multiply it by .7 when you use a 30% haste.

The formula that I used was derived from changing the attack delay to attack rate and changing it back after applying haste.

Following your calculation if you use a 100% haste you would multiply 0 with x which is not the case. You would multiply it by 1/2 because having something that’s 100% faster means that the rate is doubled. With your formula the attack speed would approach infinity.
so by your maths in the current game there is no possible way to have edl dagger hit speed cap?
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Re: Any chance the game will ever be less platinum based?

#23
Robert wrote:
Dark Kitty wrote:
Robert wrote:No, it’s not.

Following your logic, if a 30% reduction in attack speed is calculated as x/1.3 then 50% reduction in attack speed would be calculated as x/1.5. Rather than x*0.7 and x*0.5.

Yes x/1.5 would be how you would calculate a 50% haste. The way you did it is that you treated attack delay as attack speed (rate at which you attack). The problem is that they are two different entities and have to be treated as such. You can’t just multiply it by .7 when you use a 30% haste.

The formula that I used was derived from changing the attack delay to attack rate and changing it back after applying haste.

Following your calculation if you use a 100% haste you would multiply 0 with x which is not the case. You would multiply it by 1/2 because having something that’s 100% faster means that the rate is doubled. With your formula the attack speed would approach infinity.

Except Attack speed is hard capped at 1100.

That’s irrelevant. It doesn’t make sense if a 2x attack speed boost can get you infinite attack speed (aside from the hard cap).
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Re: Any chance the game will ever be less platinum based?

#24
Dark Kitty wrote:
Robert wrote:
Dark Kitty wrote:Yes x/1.5 would be how you would calculate a 50% haste. The way you did it is that you treated attack delay as attack speed (rate at which you attack). The problem is that they are two different entities and have to be treated as such. You can’t just multiply it by .7 when you use a 30% haste.

The formula that I used was derived from changing the attack delay to attack rate and changing it back after applying haste.

Following your calculation if you use a 100% haste you would multiply 0 with x which is not the case. You would multiply it by 1/2 because having something that’s 100% faster means that the rate is doubled. With your formula the attack speed would approach infinity.

Except Attack speed is hard capped at 1100.

That’s irrelevant. It doesn’t make sense if a 2x attack speed boost can get you infinite attack speed (aside from the hard cap).

It’s not, it’s calculated as a reduction in attack speed.

Why does a super haste elixir say that it hard caps at 1100 if even a EDL only reaches 1266?
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Re: Any chance the game will ever be less platinum based?

#25
Robert wrote:
Dark Kitty wrote:
Robert wrote:Except Attack speed is hard capped at 1100.

That’s irrelevant. It doesn’t make sense if a 2x attack speed boost can get you infinite attack speed (aside from the hard cap).

It’s not, it’s calculated as a reduction in attack speed.

Why does a super haste elixir say that it hard caps at 1100 if even a EDL only reaches 1266?

I think you are getting confused with attack speed and attack delay. The number it shows is the delay (the amount of milliseconds between attacks). So haste gives you more attack speed and less delay.
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Re: Any chance the game will ever be less platinum based?

#26
Robert wrote:
Dark Kitty wrote:
Robert wrote:Except Attack speed is hard capped at 1100.

That’s irrelevant. It doesn’t make sense if a 2x attack speed boost can get you infinite attack speed (aside from the hard cap).

It’s not, it’s calculated as a reduction in attack speed.

Why does a super haste elixir say that it hard caps at 1100 if even a EDL only reaches 1266?

+1 rob your math is correct I have no clue where and why dark kitty got that from
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Re: Any chance the game will ever be less platinum based?

#27
I know Anex talked about this before. It’s not just simply multiplying by 1 minus % as most people see it.

This should be easier to understand:
If you use a 100% haste then you double your attack speed and half the attack delay.
Using your formula, that is true when you use a 50% haste.
Your attack speed shouldn’t double from a 50% haste. That’s not how percent increase and decrease works.
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Re: Any chance the game will ever be less platinum based?

#29
Dark Kitty wrote:I know Anex talked about this before. It’s not just simply multiplying by 1 minus % as most people see it.

This should be easier to understand:
If you use a 100% haste then you double your attack speed and half the attack delay.
Using your formula, that is true when you use a 50% haste.
Your attack speed shouldn’t double from a 50% haste. That’s not how percent increase and decrease works.

Best thing to do is go to a glad/ obelisk or something screen record your autos for 100s with and without a haste , and see if u get the same difference in attack speed with your formula , if it’s right u can show us evidence if not it’s ok we all make mistakes.
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Re: Any chance the game will ever be less platinum based?

#30
30% speed boost = 0.7x original speed.
100% original speed - 30% original speed = 70% original speed = 0.7x
Heres the original post on the topic: http://celtic-heroes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65710

Attack speed is linear. There is no other correct formula, it just comes down to testing and math.
Jake wrote:I have tested this and confirm it.

Equip a cruel knife and a 30% speed boost. Then attack a mob and time how long it takes for 10 DMG numbers to appear.

Then use heroic haste and repeat experiment. You will see that the 2 times are exactly the same.

Were it speed/(1+mod), the above would not be the case. Cruel knife speed is 1471.
1471/1.3 = 1131. 1471/1.6 = 919 (capped at 1100). 1100 != 1131.
It's very easy to see in game. 1100 speed = 1 attack per 1.1 second. Set up a timer for 100 seconds, reach the speed cap and attack some enemy, and you will see that 90-91 damage numbers will appear, ie 90 or 91 hits. Were it 1471/1.3, you would see 100/1.131 = 88 damage numbers.

There is no such thing as attack speed vs attack delay. There is only one number: the speed of your weapon.
The game works with whats called tick cycles. Every x milliseconds, the server will process every queued player action. Im not sure exactly the code VR is running, or how long their tick cycle is, but it boils down to something like this:
When a player attacks an enemy, his attack timer is set to the current timestamp in milliseconds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time)
Each game tick, the server will check if the current timestamp - the player attack timer (old timestamp) >= the players modified attack speed (1100).
If the current timestamp - old timestamp >= modified attack speed, the player will attack, reset the attack timer to current timestamp, and process repeats.
(software wise, the better way to do it is set timer variable = attack speed, and subtract the tick time every tick until it hits 0 and repeat, but above is better way of describing the process.

Just from observing the game, I'm assuming the servers run with a 100ms process time.

*edit* as per above
I forgot to mention. Your actually weapon speeds depends on the order in which actions are processed.
If you are processed first in a list of 500 other players, your attack speed will be 1100. If you are processed last, then depending on how long each player takes to process, your attack speed would be more.
Assuming the tick time is 100ms, it is safe to assume no more than 75ms of actual processing time and 25ms idle time -- and these are very generous values.
So if you have capped at the 1100 speed mark, then your slowest possible observed speed would be 1175.
However... Also taking a safe assumption that the server processes player actions in random order each tick. So, at the 1100 cap, your observed attack speed would be 1100 + random(0-75)
Last edited by Jake on Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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