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To haste, or not to haste

#1
Recently there has been some discussion as to whether or not those melee dps who haste at a boss should receive a gearing advantage over those who don't. This is with regards to an endgame clan which can kill all bosses. Some feel that if they are not in the lock group (there are several lock battles at all endgame/legacy bosses other than Gele) they shouldn't have to haste. As long as they show to the boss and "help" that they should have the same rights to the gear that drops. Others feel that it's unfair to those in lockgroup that use plat items in order to secure the boss for the clan, not to mention the hasters outside of the group who help make sure the bosses go down faster (preferably without rage that drains even more resources).

What are your thoughts on the need for endgame players to haste and gearing policies toward those who haste as opposed to those who don't?

Naturally this does not apply to casters, just melee dps (warriors, rangers, rogues).

Btw, drops are rolled at the boss
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Re: To haste, or not to haste

#2
I'd say this depends on the numbers at kill. Leaders in Relentless on Gwydion will let clannies know when to haste, usually for beating rage when we have low numbers. You can also figure out if boss will rage seeing how much HP goes down in 2-3 mins. (FYI there is only 1 clan competing on Gwyd ATM)

Mord, Hrung, DL/EDL all die pretty easily without haste with 20+ people online, if below, then it should be up the leader's judgement.

Necro can turn into a real nightmare if it rages and if you don't have winds and multiple druids, but with a fully geared ranger group+ and decent spirit tanking you can kill without haste.

Proteus and Gelebron should always be hasted on, both will cost you a lot of time and plat if they rage. Since rogues, warriors will often be running on Prot, it's counter intuitive for them to waste their hastes on those, they can maximize their use of hastes on other bosses, rangers should obviously always haste since they will be the bulk of damage inflicted on Prot.

Ideally everyone, outside or inside group should be hasting, regardless if they're all rolling. If the boss dies faster then you save precious time, with that time you can farm gold to potentially buy more lixes.

Basically if you haste on anything = less time it takes to kill, keep that mind.

And if you impose the above, which I strongly recommend, people who still choose to not haste when asked to should be disadvantaged in the gearing process. You want your doch armour and EDL weapons on people who will do more damage and save you more time, not on people who are not willing to make a small sacrifice for the greater good of the clan.
Wattzon of Sulis

Re: To haste, or not to haste

#3
Artisan wrote:Recently there has been some discussion as to whether or not those melee dps who haste at a boss should receive a gearing advantage over those who don't. This is with regards to an endgame clan which can kill all bosses. Some feel that if they are not in the lock group (there are several lock battles at all endgame/legacy bosses other than Gele) they shouldn't have to haste. As long as they show to the boss and "help" that they should have the same rights to the gear that drops. Others feel that it's unfair to those in lockgroup that use plat items in order to secure the boss for the clan, not to mention the hasters outside of the group who help make sure the bosses go down faster (preferably without rage that drains even more resources).

What are your thoughts on the need for endgame players to haste and gearing policies toward those who haste as opposed to those who don't?

Naturally this does not apply to casters, just melee dps (warriors, rangers, rogues).

Btw, drops are rolled at the boss

If its the same people refusing to haste at bosses where hastes are needed than I would say don't give them gear preference. We had a player in resurgence, who was recently kicked for selling gear and being a douche, who refused to haste unless someone gave him a haste, even though he was probably one of the top 5 wealthiest members of the clan. Something like this should not be rewarded imo. But at the same time I don't haste on every single boss, but my alts, including my tank, have a stockpile of hastes ready if its ever needed for locking or to prevent rage... and imo all melee mains should be expected to haste.
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Re: To haste, or not to haste

#4
It's not haste, but tanks are also expected to hp/armour/def/energy on EVERY boss as well, to keep up, and mages/druids are also expected to use energy and occasionally hp/armour lixes to stay up and effective thru the battle. Lixes should really depend on the boss, the clan, the person, and the competition. Ik in Havoc, people are expected to attack and haste lix if they're in the main group, and haste/attack if you're melee dps on any endgame boss, unless you legitimately cannot afford it. It's just what protocols your clan or group uses. Since we don't roll for drops, it's kinda different, but I'd say to revoke rolling rights from melee dps if they don't haste/attack on bosses that need it. Yeah, it's kinda biased towards other classes, but it's the way the classes are set up. You wouldn't let a useless-level toon roll for drops at a serious boss, so why let people who aren't willing to maximize their dps roll for drops that make them more useful...
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Re: To haste, or not to haste

#5
There are heaps of members who haste on their own accord (even if it's a 5 star edl) even if we tell them not to lol.

In general we hand out hastes to members when it's needed (on mord and above), from gold gained from killing said raid bosses.
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Re: To haste, or not to haste

#6
To be honest..to many factors to alienate players.

Personally tho I think management of sector classes should be held accounted for there troops.

hastes should be available from management...if that's what there class manager wants.

That's why you have higher ranks in this game...not to complain.

Re: To haste, or not to haste

#7
Hasting at raids by melee should be melee should be expected if they want to be included in drops, edls and below its not needed but as always it should be up to the discretion of the leaders to state haste or not.

Dkp and such you would simply not award points to those who refuse to haste decreasing their chance of obtaining gear, as rolling was stated it makes things difficult, don't haste - dont roll seems logical unless stated otherwise by leaders.

If we use the example of blood/oblivion necro rings for melee or godly prot attack braces as these are scarce and by far some of the best raid items in game for creating a lock advantage aswell as decreasing the time of a raid, the logical thing would be to have godly, imperial, royal on the hasted active dps that take part in lock battles, these could even be reserved for those with edl weapons and always haste when leaders expect people to. However you don't want to penalise them so they never achieve higher dps and are a useful asset so its up to the discretion of leaders to use these drops as best as possible setting bench marks for rolling eligbility. Then again you will never achieve efficient loot distribution from rolling hence what makes it more difficult and requires nonsensical rules of who can and cant roll to make it even close to as efficient as dkp (in general).

Although i may be overcomplicating things, generally speaking those that do haste should have priority over drops if you care about efficient distributions. The underlying point is since this is rolling do you want to see a void moon helm won by someone who is of little benefit to the clans raids, these are problems that should be addressed with rolling by leadership to avoid the situation. Things like no haste = no drops does seem like a step in the right direction.
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Re: To haste, or not to haste

#8
Many bosses die easily with the right numbers without haste, but its the lock fights that require u to use at least one. If u dont run from rotors on Prot Id not bother with haste tho, u only have like 5 secs interval between rotors' effect fading and until he starts casting another one or until it already hits u (I forgot, I have been MIA).
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