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Re: Explain why DG Armour is not a total waste on a Druid or Mage...

#31
Frid comes from a server where all warriors are expected to be tanks. He has never seen what a full dps warrior can do so you will have to excuse his ignorance on the matter.
Frid comes from a server where every pure is thought about in a strategic way and not gambled on to make a set, there is no sets on gwydion but there are at least 14-16 bps and gloves, we arnt privileged to have no comp so our classes and dps are split into 2 clans so that means any warrior we get has a high responsibility of needing to be a tank and know when to bash Gele and xtals if needed.

Maybe if there was no comp a dps warrior wouldn't be bad since it is one of the higher improvements to a single class like a mage is.

Dg sets do nothing in comp servers especially if that set goes inactive then the other group has 8 bp and gloves.
Danu is a competitive server. Our competition can kill everything except Gelebron so we have constant lock battles and constant camping end game. I understand why competitive servers prioritize their best dps ....that's why we chose to do a hybrid of sets and pieces. We would have more sets if we didn't choose to give more pieces out to rangers, but we work towards gearing the most actives full as an accomplishment and hard work they have put in. Noone wants to waste pures because it takes a lot of work to collecting. Whatever works best for your clan is how you should gear, I just felt that saying it was wasted on any specific class was an unfair statement overall.
LadyNymeria
Level 230+ Rogue
General of Ascension
LadysHeart Level 220+ Druid
Level 220+ Ice Mage Valyria
Heartsbane 220+ Warrior
Level 220+ Ranger Sweet Tansy
Dreamfyre Level 220+ Lure Mage
190 Locker Rogue Catspaw


Danu

Re: Explain why DG Armour is not a total waste on a Druid or Mage...

#32
When I consider how skill dependant Druids and Mages are, it really makes me question the practicality of DG Armour.
Sure, I could get my Focus to some amazing levels, but would that outweigh losing a skill or two?

Honestly the only end-game for Druids and Mages these days is drops from Gelebron. So the better the melee DPS is the easier it is to take Gelebron more often...

Seriously, where are I wrong on this?
I haven't done the math for druids, but for my mage, my top Damage per second as of right now with just dg bp is 4109, but with full dg and same jewlery etc it is 4587.
My max bolt would increase by 1.2k
storm would remain same (due to me losing 1.3k in storm gear (occ legs and hrung hat)
shard would increase by 3k
incin would increase by 400 per tic

DG is amazing for mages, just cuz its effects aren't as obvious to a melee class who only knows attack and damage, anyone who has glanced at the mage damage formulas understands what an amazing impact DG has on a mages bottomline DPS.

DISCLAIMER: haven't read rest of the thread and I am only responding to the OP.

EDIT: And Arawn is a fairly competitive server, and we do do pieces atm instead of sets, only have 2 sets on whole server, but any class any level can request a piece and who gets what isn't chosen off of what class they are but more so how it will help the clan the best. If a mage is active at 200 bosses a month but a rogue only at 70, the mage would be much more likely to obtain the piece. Of course other factors like time in clan, loyalty etc etc go into the decision, but nontheless, i don't think class discrimination here makes too much sense, especially when damage formulas are not taken into account to see the impact of this new armor.
Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
Bob The God
This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?
Former EG try hard who’s now relaxing midgame on crom.
Fire Mages are where its at

Re: Explain why DG Armour is not a total waste on a Druid or Mage...

#33
@Ally

My comment was in response to Frid's in which he states there are 3 dps classes 1 tank and 1 healing class. Because any reference to DPS warriors is blasphemous.

I am not saying you guys should be prioritizing warriors for dg, just that dps warriors are a thing and yes, they can outdps rogues at endgame, whether he wants to believe it or not.
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Re: Explain why DG Armour is not a total waste on a Druid or Mage...

#34
@Ally

My comment was in response to Frid's in which he states there are 3 dps classes 1 tank and 1 healing class. Because any reference to DPS warriors is blasphemous.

I am not saying you guys should be prioritizing warriors for dg, just that dps warriors are a thing and yes, they can outdps rogues at endgame, whether he wants to believe it or not.
One of Arawn's only 2 dps sets is on a warrior. He is our current chief (got set as a general/ex chief). And I can assure all of you his set is not wasted in the slightest, Bigdiesel is a phenomenal warrior, restating maybe 5 times a day between tank and dps. He prefers dps but will restat to tank in a second if none log and he needs to. But his dps is amazing.

Basically don't judge a class by one of their skills. Mages have lures but are we always lure monkeys? Druids can make sick dps toons as well. No class in CH is simply good at one role.
Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
Bob The God
This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?
Former EG try hard who’s now relaxing midgame on crom.
Fire Mages are where its at

Re: Explain why DG Armour is not a total waste on a Druid or Mage...

#35
My assumptions were coming from my own experience.

PURENESS IS EXTREMELY RARE

This has resulted to our clan having to prioritize the most benefit of the limited DG that we have.

#1 Gloves - Rangers>Rogues>DPS Warriors
#2 BP - Ranger
#3 Sets - Rangers

These benefits to these classes seem to outweigh other options when PURENESS is in short supply.

As for Druids and Mages, yes if you just talk singularly about damage, DG is better.
But losing skill points means losing 1-2 skills completely

Re: Explain why DG Armour is not a total waste on a Druid or Mage...

#36
My assumptions were coming from my own experience.

PURENESS IS EXTREMELY RARE

This has resulted to our clan having to prioritize the most benefit of the limited DG that we have.

#1 Gloves - Rangers>Rogues>DPS Warriors
#2 BP - Ranger
#3 Sets - Rangers

These benefits to these classes seem to outweigh other options when PURENESS is in short supply.

As for Druids and Mages, yes if you just talk singularly about damage, DG is better.
But losing skill points means losing 1-2 skills completely
Most casters are using occult and missing skill points anyway.

On Fingal we are doing gloves and chest. We awhile back started going with 2 gloves, 1 chest. We have 0 lock battles on proteus and gele. We felt it was more fair to all that were using their time and plat items to reward as many players as we could rather than penalize players because they chose to play a druid, mage, or dps warrior. We also felt that the culmination of many pieces added to overall effectiveness of kills. For example, you can make 3 chest pieces compared to 1 set which gives a greater over all amount of attack and damage. We did a ton of gloves before doing any chest pieces as it got a lot of players excited because they felt like more were getting something out of it rather than just one player
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Explain why DG Armour is not a total waste on a Druid or Mage...

#37
EDIT: And Arawn is a fairly competitive server, and we do do pieces atm instead of sets, only have 2 sets on whole server, but any class any level can request a piece and who gets what isn't chosen off of what class they are but more so how it will help the clan the best. If a mage is active at 200 bosses a month but a rogue only at 70, the mage would be much more likely to obtain the piece. Of course other factors like time in clan, loyalty etc etc go into the decision, but nontheless, i don't think class discrimination here makes too much sense, especially when damage formulas are not taken into account to see the impact of this new armor.
arawn is one of the least competative servers. Comp has killed a few mordy but never even one necro. Compare this to other servers where necronis kos and 2 clans can kill prot and even gele, we got it easy bob lol. Who we give dg really doesnt matter yet as we dont have lock battles at necro or gele or prot. Once that starts happening we will need to start prioritising some classes over others.
Arawn
Ventius - level 227 ranger of dawn
Epona
Ventius - level 222 noob ranger of Enigma
Belenus
Ventius - level 163 druid

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Your newest blue name who has dreams to one day be purple

Re: Explain why DG Armour is not a total waste on a Druid or Mage...

#38
My assumptions were coming from my own experience.

PURENESS IS EXTREMELY RARE

This has resulted to our clan having to prioritize the most benefit of the limited DG that we have.

#1 Gloves - Rangers>Rogues>DPS Warriors
#2 BP - Ranger
#3 Sets - Rangers

These benefits to these classes seem to outweigh other options when PURENESS is in short supply.

As for Druids and Mages, yes if you just talk singularly about damage, DG is better.
But losing skill points means losing 1-2 skills completely
Please don't assume you know how casters work.
Let me analyze this piece by piece.
PURENESS IS EXTREMELY RARE
Agree. Basic Fact. Glad we have a mutually agreed upon starting place.
This has resulted to our clan having to prioritize the most benefit of the limited DG that we have.
Have you tried gearing mages? As I said in my post previously, the math supports that mage dg is a massive improvement to a mages dps. DG bp added 300 damage per second alone to my build, and that is including the loss of firebolt and iceshard damage boosts from occult.
As for Druids and Mages, yes if you just talk singularly about damage, DG is better.
But losing skill points means losing 1-2 skills completely
the first part is true, as i said the math supports this
The second part is just plain wrong.
1) mages don't really even use edl. at least the top mages don't. they all use dg, or a mixture of dg and occ with a hrung hat.
2) Extra skill points? my mage doesnt use any edl and uses 8 skills, plus edl offhand, plus gele wand, plus rabbit skill... Mages don't have skill point problems. Only time mages should focus on skill point gear is before 170/180. After that mages should switch to focusing on damage boosters like occult.
3) edl only provides 16 points max for a mage, whether fire or ice. How is this 2 skills? how is 16 points = to 100 skill points. Honestly i get you don't think mages should be geared with dg, but don't make stuff up. Like seriously.
4)
Most casters are using occult and missing skill points anyway.

When I consider how skill dependant Druids and Mages are, it really makes me question the practicality of DG Armour.
Sure, I could get my Focus to some amazing levels, but would that outweigh losing a skill or two?

Honestly the only end-game for Druids and Mages these days is drops from Gelebron. So the better the melee DPS is the easier it is to take Gelebron more often...

Seriously, where are I wrong on this?
I haven't done the math for druids, but for my mage, my top Damage per second as of right now with just dg bp is 4109, but with full dg and same jewlery etc it is 4587.
My max bolt would increase by 1.2k
storm would remain same (due to me losing 1.3k in storm gear (occ legs and hrung hat)
shard would increase by 3k
incin would increase by 400 per tic

DG is amazing for mages, just cuz its effects aren't as obvious to a melee class who only knows attack and damage, anyone who has glanced at the mage damage formulas understands what an amazing impact DG has on a mages bottomline DPS.

DISCLAIMER: haven't read rest of the thread and I am only responding to the OP.



EDIT: And Arawn is a fairly competitive server, and we do do pieces atm instead of sets, only have 2 sets on whole server, but any class any level can request a piece and who gets what isn't chosen off of what class they are but more so how it will help the clan the best. If a mage is active at 200 bosses a month but a rogue only at 70, the mage would be much more likely to obtain the piece. Of course other factors like time in clan, loyalty etc etc go into the decision, but nontheless, i don't think class discrimination here makes too much sense, especially when damage formulas are not taken into account to see the impact of this new armor.
arawn is one of the least competative servers. Comp has killed a few mordy but never even one necro. Compare this to other servers where necronis kos and 2 clans can kill prot and even gele, we got it easy bob lol. Who we give dg really doesnt matter yet as we dont have lock battles at necro or gele or prot. Once that starts happening we will need to start prioritising some classes over others.
Ya you are right vent. Only lock fights we really have are hrung and mordy.

With this i concede that if a server is giving out dg to win gele/mordy/necro lock fights i can understand gearing rangers and rogues first. But if you are talking about gearing people for gelebron/proteus the effects are pretty even, and i don't think it is fair to say giving dg to mages or druids is a waste.


The math I did doesn't lie...
Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
Bob The God
This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?
Former EG try hard who’s now relaxing midgame on crom.
Fire Mages are where its at

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