Celtic Heroes

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Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#21
Love this! I would really like a caster vs Rogue and warrior one, but Im too lazy to do it :( (Not that I could anyway) Probably comparing survivability and Energy issues.
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117+ Druid (Main) RedDogy
70+ Ranger
63+ Rogue
World: Morrigan
Clan: Looking for clan. (Old one was dead)
Current: Class Balance is a must!

Don't Judge a book by its cover.

There are 3 types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't.

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#22
RedDogy wrote:Love this! I would really like a caster vs Rogue and warrior one, but Im too lazy to do it :( (Not that I could anyway) Probably comparing survivability and Energy issues.

I would not compare them to a rogue. Other classes do not need comparisons. They just need a concesus on what is acceptable energy costs and OTM needs to listen. The game needs to move away from platinum/luxury dependency and be able to offer playable role classes to any player be it a person who has never spent a dime on this game to being a heavy investor.
Druid Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Rogue Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Dual-Device Guide - For The Hardcore Players
Dragonlord Armour Revamp - Compilation Thread

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#23
Why compare 2 classes that shouldn't be compared? Lol maybe there should be only 4 classes.. Mage Warrior Druid and Ranouge... Why take 2 classes that aren't supposed to be the exact same and complain about how they aren't the exact same? I don't see a post that compares a Mages auto Dmg and a Warriors auto dmg lmao so why make one on rogues and rangers? Just don't get why people expect classes to be the same, or even similar for that matter

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#25
FreezeCold wrote:This is the most biased thing ive ever seen on forums, who honestly wants all classes to be equal?? Yall compare all classes to rogues.


It's not that classes should be equal, more that thay should be comparable in their effectiveness. Rogues are used as the standard when making comparisons because rogues are the only class that isn't broken.
Arjunlite wrote:@P1R4HN4

That's a valid point. Both classes suffer from energy issues, however rangers do not feel it from lack of casting skills because hey! they don't have strength-based skills :lol: .


Rogues opt to not use energy regen items in favor of extra damage. Personal choice to have energy issues.
Beware the chickens, they are duplicitous.

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#26
squidly wrote:
FreezeCold wrote:This is the most biased thing ive ever seen on forums, who honestly wants all classes to be equal?? Yall compare all classes to rogues.


It's not that classes should be equal, more that thay should be comparable in their effectiveness. Rogues are used as the standard when making comparisons because rogues are the only class that isn't broken.
Arjunlite wrote:@P1R4HN4

That's a valid point. Both classes suffer from energy issues, however rangers do not feel it from lack of casting skills because hey! they don't have strength-based skills :lol: .


Rogues opt to not use energy regen items in favor of extra damage. Personal choice to have energy issues.

I've used a dex ammy with 50 energy regen, had a dagger of bounty and an energy regen bracelet and still ran out of energy. Energy lix is essential as a rogue sadly, or opt for multiple resto. Not to mention I have 3500 energy with my focus at 10. If I use energy lix with our without my other regen items I still keep up with my skills so I just opt out of regen gear knowing I'll have to use an energy lix either way
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Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#27
I applaud you for taking the time to make such a long post. Sadly, your data is wrong. Half the support rogue skills you posted are not support skills. You went as far to list poison weapon at a 5 and hide at 4. Rangers do not fair well against rogues because of shadowstrike in PvP but I've seen rangers actually take on warriors with bolas and longshot. Nonetheless, rangers do have a lower damage output than rogues and I believe that being a ranged class justifies that. Some skills must be reworked on the support side and sharpshot should be str based but I don't support any increases that would bring rangers on par with rogue dps.
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If two wrongs don't make a right, try three.
~Laurence J. Peter

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#28
@yakat

Arjunlite wrote:N.B: Bandage Wounds, Recuperate and Meditate are excluded form the list. Also, dexterity based and strength based skills are coded by color. Non-stat affected skills are black. Lastly, support skills encapsulate support skills as well as non-direct damage skills.


Poison damage, Sharpen Weapons, Steady Aim were counted as non-direct damage sills. I incorporated their damage when I calculated damage-effectiveness. However, I felt they shouldn't go into direct damage skills (i.e. shadowstrike, sharp shot), hence why I classified them as support skills.
Druid Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Rogue Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Dual-Device Guide - For The Hardcore Players
Dragonlord Armour Revamp - Compilation Thread

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#29
Regarding P1R4HN4, I have used a full luxury set from Samhain 2013 on both my ranger and my rogue when I was around level 170-180 and I can safely state that they both suffered from energy problems. I will admit however that I felt rogue's energy was depleting faster but that was because I was spamming skills on him while only using a couple for ranger.

I think both have the same energy problems. The ratio of skills to energy cost amounts to the same. (rangers have a lower number of skills but tad bit higher energy cost, rogues have loads of skills with a fair amount of energy cost)
Druid Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Rogue Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Dual-Device Guide - For The Hardcore Players
Dragonlord Armour Revamp - Compilation Thread

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#30
Arjunlite wrote:@yakat

Arjunlite wrote:N.B: Bandage Wounds, Recuperate and Meditate are excluded form the list. Also, dexterity based and strength based skills are coded by color. Non-stat affected skills are black. Lastly, support skills encapsulate support skills as well as non-direct damage skills.


Poison damage, Sharpen Weapons, Steady Aim were counted as non-direct damage sills. I incorporated their damage when I calculated damage-effectiveness. However, I felt they shouldn't go into direct damage skills (i.e. shadowstrike, sharp shot), hence why I classified them as support skills.

You should have labeled the Support category as "Other skills" then. Adding non support skills into the rogue category made it appear they had equal support skills on the chart. Entangle is also an amazing skill besides the fact it evades too much. I think ranger support skills should be reworked so they dont evade as often as well.
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If two wrongs don't make a right, try three.
~Laurence J. Peter

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