Celtic Heroes

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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#101
Eragon123 wrote:
Zkills wrote:Dom clans are increasingly getting better and better with bosses like BT and Gele while comp clans are stuck with the junk... a few occasionally lucky pulls from a necro, Mordy or prot and maybe a gele kill or two.


This has a pretty big impact on the original point of this thread. Comp clans tend to get few and far between endgame bosses, which usually leads to the "Clan Owned Gear" idea. They fought hard as a clan to get limited gear, and therefore want to see that hard won gear be used by the clan to help gear the other clanmates, rather than whoever got it sometime deciding to leave the clan and take that really good gear with them.


This is probs off topic but...

From what I understood, he is referring to comp clans when they become Dom. Many (maybe most, idk) are in comp clans because they don't like the 'its us or ur dead to us' mentality displayed by many Dom clans. Myself included. But once your goal of overthrowing the Dom clan is complete, if you decide to take it's place and become closed off to other members of your server when it comes to bossing, then you've just become what you were trying to get rid of.

Note: I am not making this a Dom vs comp clan discussion, and I am not saying Dom clans are good or bad, just pointing out one potential outcome

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#102
This topic is an opinion rather than fact, I prefer a dkp system rather than rolling, so I join a dkp system clan, if you dont like it you dont have to join, just as well I wouldn't join a rolling clan, I dont have good luck anyways, not gonna get on here and bash a rolling system though, to each his own, that's why theres multiple clans on multiple servers, suggest doing a little research before joining a server.. dont level to 215 and realize you dont like a particular system then get mad because you cant beat a dom clan who uses a particular system you dont care for.

And to the point of selling gear "you earned", well sure you could sell it for personal profit and greed, I prefer to recycle my items so others can use them and build eachother up, in the clan, again.. another play style and multiple other servers cater to your needs, suggest joining one that does instead of complaining about one that doesnt

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#103
Roll Coal wrote:This topic is an opinion rather than fact, I prefer a dkp system rather than rolling, so I join a dkp system clan, if you dont like it you dont have to join, just as well I wouldn't join a rolling clan, I dont have good luck anyways, not gonna get on here and bash a rolling system though, to each his own, that's why theres multiple clans on multiple servers, suggest doing a little research before joining a server.. dont level to 215 and realize you dont like a particular system then get mad because you cant beat a dom clan who uses a particular system you dont care for.

And to the point of selling gear "you earned", well sure you could sell it for personal profit and greed, I prefer to recycle my items so others can use them and build eachother up, in the clan, again.. another play style and multiple other servers cater to your needs, suggest joining one that does instead of complaining about one that doesnt


Off topic. No one is questioning points systems. People are questioning if gear obtained with points is the property of the person or the clan. Holding the opinion that its your gear does not mean you prefer rolling systems.

Read the threat and respond accordingly.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#104
Soccer wrote:
Eragon123 wrote:
Zkills wrote:Dom clans are increasingly getting better and better with bosses like BT and Gele while comp clans are stuck with the junk... a few occasionally lucky pulls from a necro, Mordy or prot and maybe a gele kill or two.


This has a pretty big impact on the original point of this thread. Comp clans tend to get few and far between endgame bosses, which usually leads to the "Clan Owned Gear" idea. They fought hard as a clan to get limited gear, and therefore want to see that hard won gear be used by the clan to help gear the other clanmates, rather than whoever got it sometime deciding to leave the clan and take that really good gear with them.


This is probs off topic but...

From what I understood, he is referring to comp clans when they become Dom. Many (maybe most, idk) are in comp clans because they don't like the 'its us or ur dead to us' mentality displayed by many Dom clans. Myself included. But once your goal of overthrowing the Dom clan is complete, if you decide to take it's place and become closed off to other members of your server when it comes to bossing, then you've just become what you were trying to get rid of.

Note: I am not making this a Dom vs comp clan discussion, and I am not saying Dom clans are good or bad, just pointing out one potential outcome


Yep, I'm trying to pull the thread back on the original topic. There's some pretty good content here, and it would be a shame for the thread to be locked because players can't agree to disagree.
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Retribution - Sulis
Sneaky o.O
Have questions about anything? PM me!

Latest Celtic Heroes Database Update: Character Creator! Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#105
Eragon123 wrote:
Soccer wrote:
Eragon123 wrote:
This has a pretty big impact on the original point of this thread. Comp clans tend to get few and far between endgame bosses, which usually leads to the "Clan Owned Gear" idea. They fought hard as a clan to get limited gear, and therefore want to see that hard won gear be used by the clan to help gear the other clanmates, rather than whoever got it sometime deciding to leave the clan and take that really good gear with them.


This is probs off topic but...

From what I understood, he is referring to comp clans when they become Dom. Many (maybe most, idk) are in comp clans because they don't like the 'its us or ur dead to us' mentality displayed by many Dom clans. Myself included. But once your goal of overthrowing the Dom clan is complete, if you decide to take it's place and become closed off to other members of your server when it comes to bossing, then you've just become what you were trying to get rid of.

Note: I am not making this a Dom vs comp clan discussion, and I am not saying Dom clans are good or bad, just pointing out one potential outcome


Yep, I'm trying to pull the thread back on the original topic. There's some pretty good content here, and it would be a shame for the thread to be locked because players can't agree to disagree.


What's the point of all this discussion if RV workers dont provide feedback on how they see the game should be headed. Otherwise we just keep bashing heads without being in the least bit productive.

At this point, points from sides of the camp have been articulated. When the thread starts to repeatedly lose focus, it often means all that needed to be said has been said.

Can someone in VR please chyme in? If they see no problem in clans setting drop rules, then say so. If not then say so. If you are unsure and need to weigh pros and cons and so on, then indicate so please.

Otherwise there's no point to this discussion.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#106
Soccer wrote:
Legacyte wrote:Some people like dom clans, some hate it, if you do hate it just xfer to epona or try to fight it and make another open server, if u fail that just means majority of people dont wanna join you and they r happy, crying here wont do any


Many who are happy in their Dom clan still do not believe that all gear they earn is not their own. So this can't be boiled down to Dom vs comp clan. Nice try

No one here is crying, we are having a discussion so stop whining when people try to discuss topics you don't like.


People agree to join clans knowing the rules ( im not a fan of that rule) but people agree to it while joinong, if they dont like it then they have to figure something out[*]
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Op killer lvl 221 rogue

Legacyte 220 tank

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Azraell 181 locker ranger

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#107
Legacyte wrote:
Soccer wrote:
Legacyte wrote:Some people like dom clans, some hate it, if you do hate it just xfer to epona or try to fight it and make another open server, if u fail that just means majority of people dont wanna join you and they r happy, crying here wont do any


Many who are happy in their Dom clan still do not believe that all gear they earn is not their own. So this can't be boiled down to Dom vs comp clan. Nice try

No one here is crying, we are having a discussion so stop whining when people try to discuss topics you don't like.


People agree to join clans knowing the rules ( im not a fan of that rule) but people agree to it while joinong, if they dont like it then they have to figure something out[*]


A few have already said that. The only way for that to he accepted by all sides is if VR gives a summary of clan rules and politics of servers when deciding which server you are starting on. People who start the game from scratch don't know they should go to the caste and inquire what drop rules are. Probably wouldn't even know there would be drop rules or that drop rules would greatly affect their experience in the game. If someone knew clan doesn't allow you to keep your gear if you leave and chose to start on the server , then yes, if they are not Happy later on, you can tell them 'you knew the rules, you'll now have to find something out'

The implementation could be as simple as a list of the top 5 clans on each server page, how strong they are relative to each other (maybe highest raid attended by the clan in the past month, seeing the second place team let you role is not useful if they can't compete on any of the eg bosses) and the description of rules could be identical to the ones clan puts in the clan message.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#108
Soccer wrote:Can someone in VR please chyme in? If they see no problem in clans setting drop rules, then say so. If not then say so. If you are unsure and need to weigh pros and cons and so on, then indicate so please.


I personally think it would be a bad idea for VR to interfere with server politics and rules in anyway, and force players to play the game a certain way. That would make no sense at all, and I’m assuming that’s part of why they aren’t commenting on this topic...it should be common sense (wouldn’t hurt for them to clarify that though).

Soccer wrote:
Legacyte wrote:
Soccer wrote:
Many who are happy in their Dom clan still do not believe that all gear they earn is not their own. So this can't be boiled down to Dom vs comp clan. Nice try

No one here is crying, we are having a discussion so stop whining when people try to discuss topics you don't like.


People agree to join clans knowing the rules ( im not a fan of that rule) but people agree to it while joinong, if they dont like it then they have to figure something out[*]


A few have already said that. The only way for that to he accepted by all sides is if VR gives a summary of clan rules and politics of servers when deciding which server you are starting on. People who start the game from scratch don't know they should go to the caste and inquire what drop rules are. Probably wouldn't even know there would be drop rules or that drop rules would greatly affect their experience in the game. If someone knew clan doesn't allow you to keep your gear if you leave and chose to start on the server , then yes, if they are not Happy later on, you can tell them 'you knew the rules, you'll now have to find something out'

The implementation could be as simple as a list of the top 5 clans on each server page, how strong they are relative to each other (maybe highest raid attended by the clan in the past month, seeing the second place team let you role is not useful if they can't compete on any of the eg bosses) and the description of rules could be identical to the ones clan puts in the clan message.


I think any sort of summary of the top clans would either be heavily biased, or else super generic. VR doesn’t have the time to do an in-depth analysis of 100 different clans, that may be constantly changing. It would be too confusing to most new players....we don’t want to scare people off by overloading them with information. Like you said, the majority of new players would probably have no idea what drop rates, dkp, rolling, etc all mean (excluding mmo veterans). However, you can’t really simplify a lot of the clan rules. For example, your example of:
Soccer wrote:If someone knew clan doesn't allow you to keep your gear if you leave and chose to start on the server , then yes, if they are not Happy later on, you can tell them 'you knew the rules, you'll now have to find something out'

It’s not usually as simple as yes you can keep it or not. A lot of the time it may be dependent on what it is. For example, I doubt most endgame clans would care if you kept an aggy damage ring. However, that’s still (sort of) an endgame boss. Maybe not for the top clan, but you mention the top 5, and I could easily see the 3rd or 4th strongest clan on a server struggle to kill aggy, and get really happy with the drops, and want to be treated fairly. In my eyes it tends to be smaller clans that want to keep drops in the clan, with dominant clans not really caring since they tend to get so many drops.

If some sort of clan description list was added, but put aside in a menu somewhere - that kinda defeats the purpose of having it be easily available to new players as they are starting. Let’s be honest, how many of you have actually read through all the topics in the Help menu? How many endgame players even know that there is a Help menu with general information about the game?

As for just generically grabbing the clan message...your clan is probably different, but my clan message is pretty uninformative. I believe it’s stayed the same for at least a couple years, and currently says something along the lines of “please haste on a snorri, if you don’t have one, ask someone”. Yes it’s left from when we were noobs struggling to get snorri at lock fights. Any specific clan rules are vocal or external, where it’s easier to list out.
I realize most clans would have something more useful in their message, but not all, and if it was automatically displayed somewhere, that could lead to drama...especially if a clan sets it to something more private, without realizing it was actually publicly available. Or maybe the clan just decides to put a bad message in it to mess with new people, VR can’t control what players put in it so they shouldn’t make it a supported resource.


I guess my main points are:
1. VR shouldn’t interfere with clan or server rules, and that includes taking the clan rules and making them easily available somewhere. If that happens, then it would make the whole updating process a challenge.
2. Any global additions to the game (like a general update to clan systems and information) would have to be made with the entire playerbase in mind, not just endgame players, and not just dominant clans. It would need to be simple enough that a completely new person wouldn’t feel lost.

I feel like I’ve gone off topic here, so my apologies for that.
Eragon123 - lvl 220 ranger
Zamorak1 - lvl 220 mage
Retribution - Sulis
Sneaky o.O
Have questions about anything? PM me!

Latest Celtic Heroes Database Update: Character Creator! Go Team #WorldSkillsUSA!

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#109
As in life, survival of the fittest and those willing to put the effort in get rewarded. Watching MMO's evolve over the years I see no change in them bit a definite change in the attitudes of the people playing them. Always looking to get the best stuff with the least effort & work and then crying foul when they don't get what they want. Dom clains become dom clans because they ally themselves to teamwork and hard work....period. It's the outsiders looking in that want a piece of that glorious pie but don't want to change their mentality to earn it. The mememememe generation is upon us. Participation trophies. Equality at all levels regardless of work ethic, loyalty, integrity, etc.

I don't need validation from the masses on this. It's either apparent & evident to you or you are part of the problem :)

Be well & have fun. Fun isn't determined by the power of that pixel-gear btw. It's about teaming up with people you enjoy and working equally towars a common objective or goal. That's why raid bosses take many people to accomplish. Want the best...be with the best. Or sit on the sidelines and wait for those clans to tire our or change their objective.
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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#110
Soccer wrote:
Roll Coal wrote:This topic is an opinion rather than fact, I prefer a dkp system rather than rolling, so I join a dkp system clan, if you dont like it you dont have to join, just as well I wouldn't join a rolling clan, I dont have good luck anyways, not gonna get on here and bash a rolling system though, to each his own, that's why theres multiple clans on multiple servers, suggest doing a little research before joining a server.. dont level to 215 and realize you dont like a particular system then get mad because you cant beat a dom clan who uses a particular system you dont care for.

And to the point of selling gear "you earned", well sure you could sell it for personal profit and greed, I prefer to recycle my items so others can use them and build eachother up, in the clan, again.. another play style and multiple other servers cater to your needs, suggest joining one that does instead of complaining about one that doesnt


Off topic. No one is questioning points systems. People are questioning if gear obtained with points is the property of the person or the clan. Holding the opinion that its your gear does not mean you prefer rolling systems.

Read the threat and respond accordingly.


The thread topic and what was actually mentioned in the post by the user are different, DKP system is mentioned, also the 2nd part of my post addresses the actual "Topic" which got sidetracked by the user to become a DKP system slam in the original post, learn to read, analyze and respond accordingly to all that is discussed before commenting, not just ball your fists at the topic :roll:

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