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Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#21
Zyz wrote:
bob the mage wrote:
Zyz wrote:
nerfing dots nerfs the speed of druid leveling more than it already is
If you just switch to vines having the same cast time as bees and bees the same duration as vines with an initial dmg on cast like rend, then it helps with leveling slightly as there are less interruptions. Then give storm touch the same cooldown and cast time as strike. That would significantly help.

Any Druid relying on DOTS to kills mobs is leveling slower than they need to. Even solo DOTS should only get one, maybe 2 tics max. The burst skills work much better for short term kills like lixing while DOTs really only carry their weight at end game.


Another possible fix however is to just make there be a reduction model for DOT for each time a new one is cast on top. If only one, full value, if 2, each does 80% damage, with a cap around 1/2 damage at 4 on a boss.


Half of the druids skill dmg is from DOTs and storm touch gets evaded constantly and typically doesn't do much dmg over strike and has an insane cool down which CD reduction gear doesn't help a lot unless it's godly which we know how often godly/void items drop. So if you aren't relying on tic dmg, then you only have 2 skills left and 1 is slow and evades a lot. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

I was always a fan of melee while dots were ticking away... Specially since they take 5 seconds before they even do any do dmg. On haste, the auto dmg can add up decently.

For an EG druid on a boss kill that lasts for a few minutes, I will agree that DOT's can come to about half of a druids total damage, hence the need for stacking, as without the stacks thats a large portion of a druids DPS gone.
This being said, the main point of contention was that any DOT nerf would kill a druids ability to level, but I maintain that any druid leveling is only getting 2 tics max on 4*'s (from my personal experience where my druid was otudpsing all the rogues and rangers I used to lix with, @ everyone who says druids are bad to lix with -.- ).
I've never played an EG druid, only got to level 176 before I server jumped so I won't go to speak on evasions, I'll assume your description of storm touch to be accurate. However either proposal that I suggested would ultimately increase a druids DPS.
Whether a flat nerf or a nerf that only comes into affect the more DOT's that are added on.


*Post edited to clarify certain things
Gwydion - Guardian of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 224 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

CD Swapping since 2016

Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#22
bob the mage wrote:
Zyz wrote:
bob the mage wrote:Any Druid relying on DOTS to kills mobs is leveling slower than they need to. Even solo DOTS should only get one, maybe 2 tics max. The burst skills work much better for short term kills like lixing while DOTs really only carry their weight at end game.


Another possible fix however is to just make there be a reduction model for DOT for each time a new one is cast on top. If only one, full value, if 2, each does 80% damage, with a cap around 1/2 damage at 4 on a boss.


Half of the druids skill dmg is from DOTs and storm touch gets evaded constantly and typically doesn't do much dmg over strike and has an insane cool down which CD reduction gear doesn't help a lot unless it's godly which we know how often godly/void items drop. So if you aren't relying on tic dmg, then you only have 2 skills left and 1 is slow and evades a lot. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

I was always a fan of melee while dots were ticking away... Specially since they take 5 seconds before they even do any do dmg. On haste, the auto dmg can add up decently.

For an EG druid on a boss kill that lasts for a few minutes, I will agree that DOT's can come to about half of a druids total damage, hence the need for stacking, as without the stacks thats a large portion of a druids DPS gone.
This being said, the main point of contention was that any DOT nerf would kill a druids ability to level, but I maintain that any druid leveling is only getting 2 tics max on 4*'s (from my personal experience where my druid was otudpsing all the rogues and rangers I used to lix with, @ everyone who says druids are bad to lix with -.- ).
I've never played an EG druid, only got to level 176 before I server jumped so I won't go to speak on evasions, I'll assume your description of storm touch to be accurate. However either proposal that I suggested would ultimately increase a druids DPS.
Whether a flat nerf or a nerf that only comes into affect the more DOT's that are added on.


*Post edited to clarify certain things

Oh droods are awesome to lix with friends with, but awe-full to solo lvl with for sure.
Storm touch does get evaded pretty often.
Also eg druids, unlike mid-low lvl druids, are the easiest class ever. If u have regen lux gear you don’t even need energy lixs lol. They suck at dps thou if more than 1 dps druid is present ofc lol.

Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#23
xXzeemXx wrote:
bob the mage wrote:
Zyz wrote:
Half of the druids skill dmg is from DOTs and storm touch gets evaded constantly and typically doesn't do much dmg over strike and has an insane cool down which CD reduction gear doesn't help a lot unless it's godly which we know how often godly/void items drop. So if you aren't relying on tic dmg, then you only have 2 skills left and 1 is slow and evades a lot. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

I was always a fan of melee while dots were ticking away... Specially since they take 5 seconds before they even do any do dmg. On haste, the auto dmg can add up decently.

For an EG druid on a boss kill that lasts for a few minutes, I will agree that DOT's can come to about half of a druids total damage, hence the need for stacking, as without the stacks thats a large portion of a druids DPS gone.
This being said, the main point of contention was that any DOT nerf would kill a druids ability to level, but I maintain that any druid leveling is only getting 2 tics max on 4*'s (from my personal experience where my druid was otudpsing all the rogues and rangers I used to lix with, @ everyone who says druids are bad to lix with -.- ).
I've never played an EG druid, only got to level 176 before I server jumped so I won't go to speak on evasions, I'll assume your description of storm touch to be accurate. However either proposal that I suggested would ultimately increase a druids DPS.
Whether a flat nerf or a nerf that only comes into affect the more DOT's that are added on.


*Post edited to clarify certain things

Oh droods are awesome to lix with friends with, but awe-full to solo lvl with for sure.
Storm touch does get evaded pretty often.
Also eg druids, unlike mid-low lvl druids, are the easiest class ever. If u have regen lux gear you don’t even need energy lixs lol. They suck at dps thou if more than 1 dps druid is present ofc lol.

Uh... idk what kind of regen you're using, but there is no way energy regen gear is able to keep a druid that is fully involved in a raid at full energy. Not only that, but all lux gear is pretty bad for casters other than the offhands, and even then the gear offhands are much better. Sigils work wonders and can make lixs not needed, but even then it takes around 1k energy sigils to make a druid sustainable, with preference for close to 2-3k. (for mages its even higher, with base needed at 2k and sustainability closer to 5k).
Furthermore, I wouldn't say they "suck" at DPS, but rather their overall status is close to halved when another druid shows up.

Overall I would agree druids are amazing at EG. they are extremely versatile if built well, being able to swap from a heavy hitting DPS to support capable of keeping anyone alive. Ya they are hard to solo level, but boy are they worth having at EG.
Gwydion - Guardian of Relentless
BobsYourUncle 224 Fire Mage

Stubborn 220 Warrior (Tank)

Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game :D
boymclir wrote:Bob The God

Shadae wrote:This Bob guy is a guide? Legitimately?

CD Swapping since 2016

Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#24
The problem is, would it be too op if there are 5-10 stacks of bees/vines on a boss at one time? Should there be diminishing damage for subsequent (Lower level) vines cast on a boss? Does this then transfer across to rogue dl/edl/cg offhand dots?

Perhaps you could make it so that only the highest level cast vines is affected by lures, and any others are not?
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A mage at heart... Fire mage that is.
Currently actively playing the game.

Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#25
in my opinion, dots should stack but only the top 3 most effective currently applied. If 3 people have vines on ticing 5k each then someone with a lvl 40 vines ticing 1k should have no possible chance of overlapping. This allows for druids to be a competitive dps group without major overcomplications.

This isn't just for druids tho altho they are undoubtedly the most negatively impacted by the current system, every class should have their dots be a viable skill or VR should simply remove them because otherwise its just a waste of a skill.
World: Gwydion Clan: Relentless

Krumz~220+ Mage
Krums~220+ Dps Druid


Retirement dident work out for me .-.

Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#26
Armo wrote:The problem is, would it be too op if there are 5-10 stacks of bees/vines on a boss at one time? Should there be diminishing damage for subsequent (Lower level) vines cast on a boss? Does this then transfer across to rogue dl/edl/cg offhand dots?

Perhaps you could make it so that only the highest level cast vines is affected by lures, and any others are not?


I think the priority is to fix druid skills so it makes leveling much more efficient and faster. Figuring out what to do with DOTs in regards to bosses is pretty easy such as diminishing dmg from each DOT of the same type or have all druid skills do dmg on cast but only one gets to tic away.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#27
xXzeemXx wrote:you have more than 2 dps druids at a raid you are gonna lose on dps because they will keep overcasting each other on vines/bees.

Add a 3rd druid to the mixture and its possible that vines and bees aren’t even ticking at all because of constant recasting lmao.

And having one druid cast dots while others stick to LS and ST is stupid cuz u might as just well just play a mage and get more dmg from attunes.

Going melee is even more dumb im not gonna bother explaining why.

Seriously, fix DoTs for druids already. Dpsing as a druid is a joke if more than 1 is present.

Saying melee is stupid automatically makes your post irrelevant. Clearly you have no idea about divine damage and resists in CH.
Nuada:
King - 223 warrior (BT helm)
Best DPS warrior in Nuada

BobTheMage "Swaps are DPS loss"
Looking to join Danu to fail Dino
Ignoring everything zKills has to say

Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#28
Corrupt wrote:
xXzeemXx wrote:you have more than 2 dps druids at a raid you are gonna lose on dps because they will keep overcasting each other on vines/bees.

Add a 3rd druid to the mixture and its possible that vines and bees aren’t even ticking at all because of constant recasting lmao.

And having one druid cast dots while others stick to LS and ST is stupid cuz u might as just well just play a mage and get more dmg from attunes.

Going melee is even more dumb im not gonna bother explaining why.

Seriously, fix DoTs for druids already. Dpsing as a druid is a joke if more than 1 is present.

Saying melee is stupid automatically makes your post irrelevant. Clearly you have no idea about divine damage and resists in CH.

What i meant is melee on druid is pointles because u might as well just use a rogue at that point.
I know melee druids are viable and powerful in the right hands and i have seen live proof.
But a druid with no dot and only ls st and melee? Ya thats complete trash.

Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#29
xXzeemXx wrote:
Corrupt wrote:
xXzeemXx wrote:you have more than 2 dps druids at a raid you are gonna lose on dps because they will keep overcasting each other on vines/bees.

Add a 3rd druid to the mixture and its possible that vines and bees aren’t even ticking at all because of constant recasting lmao.

And having one druid cast dots while others stick to LS and ST is stupid cuz u might as just well just play a mage and get more dmg from attunes.

Going melee is even more dumb im not gonna bother explaining why.

Seriously, fix DoTs for druids already. Dpsing as a druid is a joke if more than 1 is present.

Saying melee is stupid automatically makes your post irrelevant. Clearly you have no idea about divine damage and resists in CH.

What i meant is melee on druid is pointles because u might as well just use a rogue at that point.
I know melee druids are viable and powerful in the right hands and i have seen live proof.
But a druid with no dot and only ls st and melee? Ya thats complete trash.

Ah then I will agree ofc.
Nuada:
King - 223 warrior (BT helm)
Best DPS warrior in Nuada

BobTheMage "Swaps are DPS loss"
Looking to join Danu to fail Dino
Ignoring everything zKills has to say

Re: DoTs are so bad that if....

#30
A change would make druids pretty much unbeatable as they can already out dps everything else at eg if running a dps / mele hybrid with high atk and baras with corresponding lures. Dot's could probably do with a change but it depends what the cost will be weather it would be a good thing or not.

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