Celtic Heroes

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Re: Bloodthorn Raid Reset Changes

#171
Perky wrote:
Muldar wrote:
Allyknife wrote:Serious question if epona and arawn both kill it will you continue to buff it until we just give up and nerf it after the 8 weeks needed for a offhand which only gives resist really?


There are no plans for further changes to the Bloodthorn raid.

The encounter has been designed for 40 players each with tier 8 offhands. However, from launch we knew there would be a possibility of higher population servers downing Bloodthorn.
We still believe Bloodthorn is still killable (regardless of offhands) with Arawn and Eponas numbers. There are no plans for changes due to this. (We are more impressed by this fact).

The root adds however were designed as a variable threat, and one that should act as a detriment to your raid the longer you continue to leave it up.
Offtanking is a valid strategy, but resetting a mob to reduce the mobs stacking aura was never an intended feature of the raid.

The feedback provided in this thread and the feedback we receive as players progress through Corrupted Gardens will be reviewed by our Design Team.
I will discuss the player population (raid size) feedback further with the team.


Hows making a new raid that requires 40+ toons with t8 offhand to kill it going to make clans move on from old raids as hrung, mord and necro?


Dont mistake me as an OTM fangirl, but I’m prettty sure the “move on from other bosses” bit wasn’t supposed to be an overnight thing. It seems like the overall plan is to have a transition period. That said, I completely agree that having buffed BT the way they have makes it less likely.

BT gear is generally a huge improvement in stats for most classes, thanks to OTM taking beta feedback into account. But if it’s easier for me to keep killing prot and gele for gear that is still very nice, then that’s what will happen.
Warrior - Crom
220+ Tank
Striving to be adequate
Proud Clanswoman of Seed

Re: Bloodthorn Raid Reset Changes

#172
Muldar wrote:
Allyknife wrote:Serious question if epona and arawn both kill it will you continue to buff it until we just give up and nerf it after the 8 weeks needed for a offhand which only gives resist really?


There are no plans for further changes to the Bloodthorn raid.

The encounter has been designed for 40 players each with tier 8 offhands. However, from launch we knew there would be a possibility of higher population servers downing Bloodthorn.
We still believe Bloodthorn is still killable (regardless of offhands) with Arawn and Eponas numbers. There are no plans for changes due to this. (We are more impressed by this fact).

The root adds however were designed as a variable threat, and one that should act as a detriment to your raid the longer you continue to leave it up.
Offtanking is a valid strategy, but resetting a mob to reduce the mobs stacking aura was never an intended feature of the raid.

The feedback provided in this thread and the feedback we receive as players progress through Corrupted Gardens will be reviewed by our Design Team.
I will discuss the player population (raid size) feedback further with the team.

If resetting the roots to negate the stacking auras was never intended then why wasn’t it addressed in beta? We did the reset strategy in both roots to kill it while the devs watched us.
Epona:
Yeeticus- Work in progress ranger

Herne:
Wardon- 220 Warrior
Cryptic- 220 Rogue

Re: Bloodthorn Raid Reset Changes

#173
Tadaaah wrote:We probably don't want players completing the new content within the first month of the update.

Lol. Normally, you're right. For the example of an end game encounter, your aim would be to lock that content through some factor, keeping player activity high and steady until that content is unlocked, beginning a gradual decline in activity.

But thats not how your game works. Not right now anyways.
Yall have decided to stretch out end game content through long spawn windows and low quantity random based drops. Valid strategy. I wouldn't say its a good one, but it keeps people logging in.
You cant just throw in a another prolonging element of encounter difficulty. It doesn't pair with your drop system, or with this player base.

Plus when you lock that theoretically infinite content behind a difficulty wall, players make up that time doing other things, such as reaching level caps much faster than you'd normally want, get burned out or bored, and stop playing - especially when the encounter is targeted towards those max level players who have already gotten bored and became inactive multiple times in the past, and are only back for the update.
Last edited by Jake on Thu May 17, 2018 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bloodthorn Raid Reset Changes

#175
Wardon-CH wrote:If resetting the roots to negate the stacking auras was never intended then why wasn’t it addressed in beta? We did the reset strategy in both roots to kill it while the devs watched us.


Changes were made in an effort to prevent resetting, however, as evident by the most recent fix, did not prevent the ability to do so entirely.
Muldar /
Ranger - 172 - Balor - Android

Re: Bloodthorn Raid Reset Changes

#176
Muldar wrote:
Criminal wrote:U do know u could just increase the vines' aggro range so far that resetting it wouldnt be valid? Like u cant reset spirits, skeletons, mordy sents, priestess, aggy's healers. U can only reset 4 out of 6 of gele's sents but let me guess ur gonna buff that too?

"We are more impressed by this fact that servers with 60 toons could still kill it when we buffed it into invincibility". Ur more impressed by their numbers rather than strategy. Off-tanking is valid u say? Then dont remove that option.


As Bloodthorn is static increasing the range wasn't possible.
Increasing the adds range would mean players could just drag it away from the fight entirely, therefore negating all buff effects.

Increase the buff range as well. As long as the vines can move far enough to cover the entire BT aggro range and their buff will have enough distance it wont be an issue.

For example u could say necro would be pulled far enough from spirits thus resetting them, but it doesnt happen because not only their aggro range is so high but his call range is really high as well. Same goes for mordy, she calls mobs from extremely far and at the same time almost every mob at the mordy pit can chase u down the entire pit.
U did it even for sreng, u cant reset the adds without resetting Sreng himself because both their range and his call range are high enough. Whats the issue in increasing both the vines' range and their buff range in order to be able to off-tank but not reset? Every other boss except for Gele has a mechanic that nullifies the reset strat.
#NerfMages #AvoidBalance #WhyPlayARogue #MeatShieldOnly #HealingSlavesOnly

OP dps warrior on Belenus, hot af melee druid on Nuada. #Elementals #Apex

Re: Bloodthorn Raid Reset Changes

#177
Jake wrote:
Tadaaah wrote:We probably don't want players completing the new content within the first month of the update.

Lol. Normally, you're right. For the example of an end game encounter, your aim would be to lock that content through some factor, keeping player activity high and steady until that content is unlocked, beginning a gradual decline in activity.

But thats not how your game works. Not right now anyways.
Yall have decided to stretch out end game content through long spawn windows and low quantity random based drops. Valid strategy. I wouldn't say its a good one, but it keeps people logging in.
You cant just throw in a another prolonging element of encounter difficulty. It doesn't pair with your drop system, or with this player base.

Plus when you lock that theoretically infinite content behind a difficulty wall, players make up that time doing other things, such as reaching level caps much faster than you'd normally want, get burned out or bored, and stop playing - especially when the encounter is targeted towards those max level players who have already gotten bored and became inactive multiple times in the past, and are only back for the update.


You make great points! All things to take into consideration. There's that balance between frustration and reward. That's the main questions right now, right? Is the frustration worth the reward? Considering the feedback in this thread, that is something we'll have to address internally.

Re: Bloodthorn Raid Reset Changes

#178
Criminal nailed it on the head when he said that we had been waiting years for an expansion like update only to see it delayed for months, and now seeing that many servers won't be able to kill because of divided servers or players that went inactive because of the long delays, understandably players were going to be upset with the amounts required to kill.
Wattzon of Sulis

Re: Bloodthorn Raid Reset Changes

#179
The biggest thing, that many have mentioned already, that OTM failed to take into consideration was the mutlilogging that is done on many servers just to have the numbers required for these massive raids.

In Epona's 50-60 number that took down Bloodthorn, majority would have consisted of single logged players, because AFAIK there is no incentive to multilog there, unsure of Arawns situation.

Multilogging, although fills in roles, reduces the efficiency on each toon the player controls, thus requiring additional numbers than what is stated, so a server that has clannies multilogging will require around 60+ toons with T8 offhand, rather than the 40 player with T8 offhand that is officially stated. Most servers don't have upwards of 70 toons actively playing these days because this game simply does not offer much anymore apart from the socializing.

A better raid would be one that requires less players and with a bit more strategy.
Wattzon of Sulis

Re: Bloodthorn Raid Reset Changes

#180
LeGenDzZ wrote:The biggest thing, that many have mentioned already, that OTM failed to take into consideration was the mutlilogging that is done on many servers just to have the numbers required for these massive raids.

In Epona's 50-60 number that took down Bloodthorn, majority would have consisted of single logged players, because AFAIK there is no incentive to multilog there, unsure of Arawns situation.

Multilogging, although fills in roles, reduces the efficiency on each toon the player controls, thus requiring additional numbers than what is stated, so a server that has clannies multilogging will require around 60+ toons with T8 offhand, rather than the 40 player with T8 offhand that is officially stated. Most servers don't have upwards of 70 toons actively playing these days because this game simply does not offer much anymore apart from the socializing.

A better raid would be one that requires less players and with a bit more strategy.


Hello Muldar,
With the bloodthorn that seems unachievable for many players and the boring farming needed to reach T8,
and the fact that in many servers many people are leaving because of the boring game content, I am curious on the
OTM vision of their business itself.
Is OTM a charity company full of idealism to create a hard core difficult game for die-hard fans, which does not care if people
will buy plat or not ?
Have OTM ever make analysis or survey the impact of your updates from time to time, to your income as a whole ?
Were your update energizing more and more people to buy plat, which have increased your income ?
Or your updates on the contrary have made your player base shrink and shrink and shrink as time goes by,
and income decreased from year to year, bcos many people disappointed on the game content and then just quit ?

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