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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#561
Women are held in a lower position in the bible...

Read Corinthian 11:3-9, Corinthian 14:34-35, and Timothy 2:11-14.

Corinthian 11:3-9
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

Corinthian 14:34-35
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Timothy 2:11-14
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission.

12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

a) 1 Timothy 2:11 Or wife; also in verse 12
b) Timothy 2:12 Or over her husband

Primitive human ideas.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#562
Vraelan wrote:Women are held in a lower position in the bible...

Read Corinthian 11:3-9, Corinthian 14:34-35, and Timothy 2:11-14.

Corinthian 11:3-9
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

Corinthian 14:34-35
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Timothy 2:11-14
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission.

12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

a) 1 Timothy 2:11 Or wife; also in verse 12
b) Timothy 2:12 Or over her husband

Primitive human ideas.

Women were equal to men until Eve ate of the Tree. She was the first human to sin.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#563
Two words that can either prove or disprove someones belief in religion.....THE FOLLOWING. Now its hitting the point where a war on religion is waged. Just thought id try to be someone comical and i probably failed so.....stab me in the kidney ^_^
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#564
@Aggra_Tetch

So you say that women are not equal to men? Pfft.

You must prove that because as I look around, I see women who can outsmart men, become just as strong, run just as fast, etc.

Edit: Not "otherwise." My apologies, lol.
Last edited by Vraelan on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#565
Vraelan wrote:@Aggra_Tetch

So you say that women are not equal to men? Pfft.

You must prove otherwise because as I look around, I see women who can outsmart men, become just as strong, run just as fast, etc.

Aka skyrim where a woman can easily oneshot you with a frikken war hammer >_>
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#566
Vraelan wrote:@Aggra_Tetch

So you say that women are not equal to men? Pfft.

You must prove that because as I look around, I see women who can outsmart men, become just as strong, run just as fast, etc.

Edit: Not "otherwise." My apologies, lol.


Ok, take a newborn baby of both sexes. Feed them nutritious foods their whole lives. Have them both work out in the hardest workout program ever. Which(unless one has a disease) will usually be stronger? Its not being sexist; its a fact of life. Now are there women who are stronger/faster than men? Of course! But usually men are stronger than women.

Are there women who are smarter than men? Well duh!

As for the man/woman relationship in the church. Man was created to be the head of the household, just as Christ is head of the church. When it is a woman teaching a man in the church(not counting little kid Sunday school) it kinda goes against that. Now can men learn things from women? Say it with me now "duh".

Women are an amazing gift from God. They are humans just like men, but they are different. A great book to read on this subject is "12 extraordinary women" by John MacArthur.

Now what do I think about women having jobs? I personnaly am a big fan of homeschooling. But obviously with the way the world is run nowadays, it is not always practical to do this. I understand that. I believe that women are the homemakers. Ever heard of the expression "a women's touch"? I guess thats kinda what I mean.

Now the flip side of that is the men's responsibilities. I understand some men are disabled and cannot get a job or are looking and cnt get a job. I certainly understand that. But I do believe that it is a mans responsibility to get a job and care for the home. He is the mom of outside the home. Just as a women has to care for the family in her way(working in the home, etc. Also like I said, I do understand if the women needs to get a job. It can happen.) the man has to care for the family in his way( bringing home money so that they can take care of the family).

Are wives to listen to their husbands? Yes(unless the husband tells her to do something against the word of God). Now is the husband to listen to his wife's opinion? Yes.(for example, in my house, Dad would listen to Mom's opinion about things, and why she thought that way. But what Dad said was law. Sometimes Mom changed his mind, sometimes she didnt.[I should add that they have had a long and successful marriage]). He is to respect her. He is to love her. What is harder for a man to do: love someone, or respect them? Usually love them. That is where we have to be careful. But should Dad be the head of the house? Yes. (Now there are some adults who are called men or women who do not deserve that title. For example, when I see a person lounging on the side of the road with their pants below their butt and trying to act cool, usually I don't think of them as a "real man". When I see these children disrespecting their mothers, I wonder how their fathers act towards their wives. Men are to respect their wives. They are to protect them. They are to love them.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#567
^Well, all that is left for me to do is disagree with your opinions and that of the bible. Again, as I said, if you think a woman is subservient to a man in a relationship... Good luck with that relationship, lol.

With that said, you are partially correct in a way. Between a male and a female who both exercise to the max, the male will be stronger. The same goes for running. I base that on what I observe from Olympics though... However, that pattern does not carry over to intellectual capacity; and that is what truly defines humanity and has given humans the evolutionary advantage. In our society, not everyone aims for the max. Therefore, even in physical ability, I consider a woman equal to a man.

Back to scripture from the bible, it does not imply solely physical ability. In fact, it would seem to look down on the entirety of woman existence and deem is necessary but below that of a man. How exactly does covering a woman do anything other than to signal a lower status? Why would a woman need to be silent in church if not to signal a lower status and imply intellectual capacity below a man?

In regards to homeschooling, I think it is far more efficient and easier to learn at home. I could probably learn a lot more if I could simply stay at home and read tonnes of books rather than go through the bs that people call a school system. However, it is obvious that a large portion of people abuse the freedom in gaining knowledge, which I would kill for, and foolish parents place tight control over the development of their children. That means a fool can continue their legacy of stupidity without being impeded by a real and diverse education.

Edit: Actually, I should have said not everyone can reach the max even if they aim for the max.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#568
This topic has turned from whether God is real or not into whether or not God is sexist. If you do not believe he is real, then why are you arguing about his 'personality' as if he existed?

I'm just gonna put it out there. You make the universe you make the rules. You are also missing the bible verses that CLEARLY state the fact that women are equal to men. God loves all people the same, including women. If women are loved just as much by God as men, then what are you trying to argue? That the bible contradicts itself? Because it doesn't. In my opinion, (and God's) everyone is equal. Everyone. You, me, solum, plus. Equal. He loves everyone the same. This being said, there is no place in the bible that should come off as sexist, even to atheists who don't even believe it.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#569
Vraelan wrote:In regards to homeschooling, I think it is far more efficient and easier to learn at home. I could probably learn a lot more if I could simply stay at home and read tonnes of books rather than go through the bs that people call a school system.

Edit: Actually, I should have said not everyone can reach the max even if they aim for the max.

Agreed in full. Drop the however.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#570
UziTheLearned wrote:This topic has turned from whether God is real or not into whether or not God is sexist. If you do not believe he is real, then why are you arguing about his 'personality' as if he existed?

That is precisely the point, well... Sort of. God is perfect. The bible represents part of god and his "ways." The bible expresses and supports sexism and various other "offences" that can only be the result of human construction. There are too many contradictions. Therefore, God does not exist.

UziTheLearned wrote:I'm just gonna put it out there. You make the universe you make the rules. You are also missing the bible verses that CLEARLY state the fact that women are equal to men. God loves all people the same, including women. If women are loved just as much by God as men, then what are you trying to argue? That the bible contradicts itself? Because it doesn't.

No, we do not make the universe. We can only perceive it. No one makes the rules. If there are phrases that would say women are not equal and the phrases that would saw women are equal; then you have a contradiction, which is a combination of statements and ideas that oppose each other. The god in the bible may indicate love for everyone but it obviously favours certain types of people. Placing biblical interpretation aside, this exact discussion only serves to emphasise the imperfection that is the bible. If god is perfect and yet shown to be imperfect, you have a contradiction that would indicate god does not exist.

UziTheLearned wrote:In my opinion, (and God's) everyone is equal. Everyone. You, me, solum, plus. Equal. He loves everyone the same. This being said, there is no place in the bible that should come off as sexist, even to atheists who don't even believe it.

Well, please explain how the exact scripture I found in the New Testament is not sexist. Sexism is the prejudice, stereotyping, and/or discrimination against woman on the basis that they are women and not men. The above scripture clearly indicates that women must unnecessarily cover themselves out of shame and be submissive to men solely because they are women and not men. That is discrimination and prejudice. It follows the exact definition of sexism.

Again, I do not focus on this part for amusement but to emphasise that such contradictions exists in scripture. The main assumption is that there exists an all powerful all knowing being. This all powerful all knowing being would not make such mistakes and the only reason the mistakes exist is if the said being does not.
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