My clan was having a discussion about tank gear and the topic of Defense came up, obviously. I know quite well about tanking so I don't need a break down of how tanking works.
My question is this, have any of you tested defense to figure out at what point it falls off. By this I mean at what point does adding more defense become redundant and seem to have no effect on evading attacks.
My guess is was once you have 10k unlixed, similar to attack, is when it starts to become redundant in stacking on defense. Any information from people that have actually tested this would be appreciated. I would test it myself but I don't have a bunch of high stacking defense gear.
Re: Defense Drop Off?
#2From random situations over the years, including alot of pvp stuff, I'm almost certain its a ratio.
100 attack/100 defense being 50%, and other numbers working off of that.
So having more is a deminishing return, but if you already deminished your other options even further, theres no reason not to add more.
100 attack/100 defense being 50%, and other numbers working off of that.
So having more is a deminishing return, but if you already deminished your other options even further, theres no reason not to add more.
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Re: Defense Drop Off?
#3All of the stats plateau, the only difference is that defence’s plateau is relative to the boss you’re fighting.My guess is was once you have 10k unlixed, similar to attack, is when it starts to become redundant in stacking on defense. Any information from people that have actually tested this would be appreciated. I would test it myself but I don't have a bunch of high stacking defense gear.
It’s worth considering though that there are plenty of internal and external buffs for warriors in the game that greatly boost other stats though which plateau much harder - and high defence works extremely well with a howling wind, rather than against the relative effectiveness unlike a lot of other boosts.
“Brevity is the soul of wit.”
Re: Defense Drop Off?
#4Defence and attack don't really plateau though, or at least we haven't really hit that point (something I don't really think we ever will). They become redundant at which point you already have enough to serve your purpose. Looking at a tank in general, plateaus don't matter much, as stat wise it's about stacking vit for higher HP regardless of when your skills plateau with vit. Armour of course is the main plateau for a tank.All of the stats plateau, the only difference is that defence’s plateau is relative to the boss you’re fighting.
It’s worth considering though that there are plenty of internal and external buffs for warriors in the game that greatly boost other stats though which plateau much harder - and high defence works extremely well with a howling wind, rather than against the relative effectiveness unlike a lot of other boosts.
I'm looking more for a number, we have a general guess with attack being around 10k before looking at different avenues. What would that number be before a tank starts looking at stacking vit and HP over defence.
With BT gear as a tank this isn't really a bother with the fact that your gonna achieve close to the max defence you can get along with vitality and resists from having all this gear.
Herne:
Wardon- 220 Warrior
Cryptic- 220 Rogue
Epona:
Yeeticus- 220 Ranger
Wardon- 220 Warrior
Cryptic- 220 Rogue
Epona:
Yeeticus- 220 Ranger
Re: Defense Drop Off?
#5Idk I see like almost no difference between when I have 17k attack or when I have 20k attack on Gelebron or Bloodthorn honestly. I'm pretty sure attack does have a plateau.Defence and attack don't really plateau though, or at least we haven't really hit that point (something I don't really think we ever will). They become redundant at which point you already have enough to serve your purpose. Looking at a tank in general, plateaus don't matter much, as stat wise it's about stacking vit for higher HP regardless of when your skills plateau with vit. Armour of course is the main plateau for a tank.All of the stats plateau, the only difference is that defence’s plateau is relative to the boss you’re fighting.
It’s worth considering though that there are plenty of internal and external buffs for warriors in the game that greatly boost other stats though which plateau much harder - and high defence works extremely well with a howling wind, rather than against the relative effectiveness unlike a lot of other boosts.
I'm looking more for a number, we have a general guess with attack being around 10k before looking at different avenues. What would that number be before a tank starts looking at stacking vit and HP over defence.
With BT gear as a tank this isn't really a bother with the fact that your gonna achieve close to the max defence you can get along with vitality and resists from having all this gear.
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Re: Defense Drop Off?
#6But is that because it actually plateaus or because you have more attack needed for the boss your attacking.Idk I see like almost no difference between when I have 17k attack or when I have 20k attack on Gelebron or Bloodthorn honestly. I'm pretty sure attack does have a plateau.
Herne:
Wardon- 220 Warrior
Cryptic- 220 Rogue
Epona:
Yeeticus- 220 Ranger
Wardon- 220 Warrior
Cryptic- 220 Rogue
Epona:
Yeeticus- 220 Ranger
Re: Defense Drop Off?
#7I mean if I had enough I wouldn't be missing any attacksBut is that because it actually plateaus or because you have more attack needed for the boss your attacking.Idk I see like almost no difference between when I have 17k attack or when I have 20k attack on Gelebron or Bloodthorn honestly. I'm pretty sure attack does have a plateau.
Songz
My song is what you hear before you die.
#FixGeleWepSkills
#Getridofspeedcap
#MakeDoTstack
My song is what you hear before you die.
#FixGeleWepSkills
#Getridofspeedcap
#MakeDoTstack
Your servers amazing and you’re the best person to walk the earth.
Re: Defense Drop Off?
#8They do.Defence and attack don't really plateau though
I suggest you look through this users’ posts. Swan reverse engineered most of the formulas in this game.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6295
Have fun looking through the data, it should have all the answers you seek.
“Brevity is the soul of wit.”
Re: Defense Drop Off?
#9My face when people bring up Swan's formulasThey do.Defence and attack don't really plateau though
I suggest you look through this users’ posts. Swan reverse engineered most of the formulas in this game.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6295
Have fun looking through the data, it should have all the answers you seek.
While they were helpful... when max stats were 1500 and max abilities 4000, Swan's formula's just don't work anymore unfortunately and need to be revamped. Players like Krummy have started the process but it is no where near complete (we have new mage formulas, a new auto attack formula, and he is currently working on new druid formulas with DemDruidsDoe)
As for whether or not attack/defence plateaus, in short yes, in long answer, no.
By the standard game definition, an attribute "plateaus" when it reaches a point where adding more increases the desired secondary attribute by a negligible margin, usually denoted by where investment in another attribute starts to outdo investment in that attribute.
If you put a toon in a vacuum, ie you do the math for a toon outside of boss evasions etc, there is no attack or defense plateau. And from a continued game standpoint, it makes sense for players to act like there is no plateau as otherwise when the next boss comes out they are behind and not ahead.
In a more practical sense in terms of current gear prioritization, your defense and attack attributes do plateau on bosses at around 15k usually, with 10k being the normal sufficient amount.
Because MMO's are a genre of continuous releases and continuations, I don't see a reason to mark a plateau on attributes that don't play into strict formulas. For example, fire magic and focus plateau for a fire mage because there is a strict point where more points in these does negligible work for fire bolt and other fire mage skills due to the formula for fire bolt. Also as energy is pretty negligible for an EG mage and fire magic doesn't really work for accuracy measures, it is easy to say these attributes plateau. Something like focus and attack are boss dependent though, and thus it is up to you as a player to assign a value on how much you need. If your goal is to set yourself up for the long haul, then there really isn't a plateau, but if your goal is to make yourself optimized for the current game play, then the plateau is whatever the max attack/defense of the current EG boss is, in this case BT and Gele.
I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion
As always, if you have any more mathy related questions I'd be happy to answer
--Bob
Feel free to pm me about anything or talk to me in game
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Re: Defense Drop Off?
#10TLDR?My face when people bring up Swan's formulasThey do.Defence and attack don't really plateau though
I suggest you look through this users’ posts. Swan reverse engineered most of the formulas in this game.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6295
Have fun looking through the data, it should have all the answers you seek.
While they were helpful... when max stats were 1500 and max abilities 4000, Swan's formula's just don't work anymore unfortunately and need to be revamped. Players like Krummy have started the process but it is no where near complete (we have new mage formulas, a new auto attack formula, and he is currently working on new druid formulas with DemDruidsDoe)
As for whether or not attack/defence plateaus, in short yes, in long answer, no.
By the standard game definition, an attribute "plateaus" when it reaches a point where adding more increases the desired secondary attribute by a negligible margin, usually denoted by where investment in another attribute starts to outdo investment in that attribute.
If you put a toon in a vacuum, ie you do the math for a toon outside of boss evasions etc, there is no attack or defense plateau. And from a continued game standpoint, it makes sense for players to act like there is no plateau as otherwise when the next boss comes out they are behind and not ahead.
In a more practical sense in terms of current gear prioritization, your defense and attack attributes do plateau on bosses at around 15k usually, with 10k being the normal sufficient amount.
Because MMO's are a genre of continuous releases and continuations, I don't see a reason to mark a plateau on attributes that don't play into strict formulas. For example, fire magic and focus plateau for a fire mage because there is a strict point where more points in these does negligible work for fire bolt and other fire mage skills due to the formula for fire bolt. Also as energy is pretty negligible for an EG mage and fire magic doesn't really work for accuracy measures, it is easy to say these attributes plateau. Something like focus and attack are boss dependent though, and thus it is up to you as a player to assign a value on how much you need. If your goal is to set yourself up for the long haul, then there really isn't a plateau, but if your goal is to make yourself optimized for the current game play, then the plateau is whatever the max attack/defense of the current EG boss is, in this case BT and Gele.
I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion
As always, if you have any more mathy related questions I'd be happy to answer
--Bob
Herne - LazyDrunks
Ranger 222Mage 220
Rogue 222
Warrior 221
Warrior 207
Ranger 222Mage 220
Rogue 222
Warrior 221
Warrior 207