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Re: In defense of rolling

#141
I don't think rolling is fair. Dkp is based on your effort, rolling on luck. Yes of course attending at more bosses will give you more rolls so more chances. When you attend at 100 mordys, win 1 roll. Than you miss the drop you've been waiting for, and hear someone won it on his very first mordy, you'll be pissed. And no system is perfect but I'd think dkp is more fair than rolling.
Herne - LazyDrunks

Rogue 222
Warrior 221
Ranger 220
Mage 220
Warrior 201

Re: In defense of rolling

#142
Skerwald wrote:I don't think rolling is fair. Dkp is based on your effort, rolling on luck. Yes of course attending at more bosses will give you more rolls so more chances. When you attend at 100 mordys, win 1 roll. Than you miss the drop you've been waiting for, and hear someone won it on his very first mordy, you'll be pissed. And no system is perfect but I'd think dkp is more fair than rolling.



World like epona; dicing is more fair

World like Morrigan; DKP is more fair


As I said earlier in this post, it's all relative. Depends solely on the clan/server: on a whole, generally speaking neither or more nor less fair than one another, depends on circumstances.
Elsroth - 220+ Mage - Clan Avalon

There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: In defense of rolling

#143
Bigdiesel wrote:Why even a need to defend rolling in the first place? if that's what epona is happy doing and it's players enjoy it then good for epona..


viewtopic.php?nomobile=1&f=4&t=85248
This topic was a response to that ^^
I honestly don't know why everyone cares about this so much, I haven't met a single player in epona who disagrees with rolling.
LordOfDiablos: 228 Support Rogue
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Re: In defense of rolling

#144
Skerwald wrote:I don't think rolling is fair. Dkp is based on your effort, rolling on luck. Yes of course attending at more bosses will give you more rolls so more chances. When you attend at 100 mordys, win 1 roll. Than you miss the drop you've been waiting for, and hear someone won it on his very first mordy, you'll be pissed. And no system is perfect but I'd think dkp is more fair than rolling.

When you attend 100 mordys, then on the 101st the drop you've been waiting for you get outbid by someone who's attended 150 mordys. Again in a DKP system, which for the vast majority of clans is bidding, what drop you can get is still a chance. Not a machine deciding what number you get, but other people deciding how much time they want to spend bossing on the game, which bosses they show up to, what items they want and how much they're willing to pay. All that is out of your control.

And the statement "we're all here to play a game" is pretty much Epona's motto. You log on to CH to have fun, which means not taking the game super seriously. I've seen DKP sheet editing and inventory tracking and it's pretty much a second job, like accounting. Rolling keeps the game fast paced and solves loot distribution without turning it into a job. I doubt anyone on Epona would want to help manage DKP for the whole server. (I'd bet some would be willing to do it for their own clan though, but not necessary thankfully)

Re: In defense of rolling

#145
I agree with Swan. I would rather get screwed over by randomness then by other people who are telling me its for the good of the clan or by a system that rewards obsessive players who have no life and play all the time. When I show up to a boss fight, I need to know that I have a chance of some immediate reward. Doesn't mean i need a drop at every boss fight. Doesn't mean i think im entitled to every drop i could use. doesn't mean i dont want to be a team player and help others get gear that they need. It just means that i need to know that i have a chance. Ive ran into this situation many times, where I time bosses and/or camp them, call bosses, use plat to help kill, and the WHOLE TIME ... i know that all I'm doing is gearing other people and have very little chance of getting a drop. in many instances, i know ZERO chance. Years ago on Morrigon, i figured out a very simple way to predict summer dragon bosses spawn time up to 24 hours in advance with a 15 minutes windows accuracy rate which was beneficial to me because i couldn't play all the time and know when the last dragon was killed. Not even Avalon at the time had figured it out yet, and i was able to give the clan I was in a huge advantage. I called dozens of dragons. DOZENS. Then i realized ... i wasn't getting anything. There is fine balance between asking for things and sounding whiney, and not asking to such a degree where you become invisible. Finally, a decent drop dropped that i could use and i wanted it, I had kept quiet and played ball for too long ... and i put my foot down and met resistance. So, i said screw that and stopped calling summer dragons within a 15 minutes spawn window which gave Avalon an advantage because they were more powerful. I eventually quit the clan.

The rolling system also gives non-obsessive players a reason to play because they know they have a chance of getting some drops. If you only play a couple hours a week, in most systems, you will be at the bottom of lists for armor items and drops. This gives all the participants in the boss fight an equal chance NO MATTER how many hours you play a week which i think is fair. Ive always felt that the participants of the boss fight should be able to collect in the rewards. This is, of course, more complicated now that end game bosses require so many players.

There are downsides to the rolling system, but these downsides IMO are not as bad as the downsides of other systems.

Re: In defense of rolling

#146
You guys don't get it. I tried epona out to consider xfering... And I discovered something. Epona is NOT a server. It is a community, like one large clan with subclans. Everyone gets along. My level 14 got free gear from people it didn't even know! Dark run boots and a langsax are pretty good at that level, and it's meaningful coming from a level 30. It's the equivalent of a level 200 giving confluxes to someone else when they can both use them.

It is a phenomenal server. I will stay there permanently.
Last edited by Loco cola on Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In defense of rolling

#147
Loco cola wrote:You guys don't get it. I tried epona out to consider xfering... And I discovered something. Epona is NOT a server. It is a community, like one large clan with subclans. Everyone gets along. My level 14 got free gear from people it didn't even know! Dark run boots and a langsax are pretty good at that level, and it's meaningful coming from a level 30. It's the equivalent of a level 200 giving confluxes to someone else when they can both use them.

It is a phenomenal server. I will stay there permanently. And I say Thyra United on there earlier and we had a chat :P


I have a lvl 23 ranger only on epona named ThyraRose so that was clearly not me just an FYI. I don't play anywhere but Arawn now. My toons on Rosmerta are retired.
Thyra 204 rogue (Rosmerta)

Faolan Wariche 224 warrior (Arawn retired)

Re: In defense of rolling

#148
Zendroid wrote:I agree with Swan. I would rather get screwed over by randomness then by other people who are telling me its for the good of the clan or by a system that rewards obsessive players who have no life and play all the time. When I show up to a boss fight, I need to know that I have a chance of some immediate reward. Doesn't mean i need a drop at every boss fight. Doesn't mean i think im entitled to every drop i could use. doesn't mean i dont want to be a team player and help others get gear that they need. It just means that i need to know that i have a chance. Ive ran into this situation many times, where I time bosses and/or camp them, call bosses, use plat to help kill, and the WHOLE TIME ... i know that all I'm doing is gearing other people and have very little chance of getting a drop. in many instances, i know ZERO chance. Years ago on Morrigon, i figured out a very simple way to predict summer dragon bosses spawn time up to 24 hours in advance with a 15 minutes windows accuracy rate which was beneficial to me because i couldn't play all the time and know when the last dragon was killed. Not even Avalon at the time had figured it out yet, and i was able to give the clan I was in a huge advantage. I called dozens of dragons. DOZENS. Then i realized ... i wasn't getting anything. There is fine balance between asking for things and sounding whiney, and not asking to such a degree where you become invisible. Finally, a decent drop dropped that i could use and i wanted it, I had kept quiet and played ball for too long ... and i put my foot down and met resistance. So, i said screw that and stopped calling summer dragons within a 15 minutes spawn window which gave Avalon an advantage because they were more powerful. I eventually quit the clan.

The rolling system also gives non-obsessive players a reason to play because they know they have a chance of getting some drops. If you only play a couple hours a week, in most systems, you will be at the bottom of lists for armor items and drops. This gives all the participants in the boss fight an equal chance NO MATTER how many hours you play a week which i think is fair. Ive always felt that the participants of the boss fight should be able to collect in the rewards. This is, of course, more complicated now that end game bosses require so many players.

There are downsides to the rolling system, but these downsides IMO are not as bad as the downsides of other systems.


What? Who were you on morrigan?

Also dkp doesn't reward the greedy or "obsessed" player in Avalon. It rewards the hard workers. And only one greedy person has been recruited. He was kicked back in 2012.

On another note epona is probably the best server if you wanna chat it up. I go there sometimes and meet some great people to chat it up with. Most other servers I usually don't get a responce.

Also I agree with seeing generous players on epona. I had like 3 people randomly give me stuff to be nice.

I really like epona but the rolling system I'm not a fan of. The players are great though way friendly.
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Re: In defense of rolling

#149
Zendroid wrote: obsessive players who have no life and play all the time. When I show up to a boss fight, I need to have immediate reward. I dont want to be a team player and help others get gear that they need. I called dozens of dragons. DOZENS. Then i realized ... i wasn't getting anything.

The rolling system also gives non-obsessive players a reason to play because they know they have a chance of getting some drops. If you only play a couple hours a week, in most systems, you will be at the bottom of lists for armor items and drops. This gives all the participants in the boss fight an equal chance NO MATTER how many hours you play a week which i think is fair. Ive always felt that the participants of the boss fight should be able to collect in the rewards. This is, of course, more complicated now that end game bosses require so many players.

There are downsides to the rolling system, but these downsides IMO are not as bad as the downsides of other systems.


I edited your post to highlight what stood out. I can't even tell you how many dozens of necros and mords and hrungs get killed and no one gets anything. Calling something a few dozen times is just part of the game. This game isn't effort. We're sitting on our rear ends pressing buttons.

YOU like rolling because YOU think YOU should be able to put in minimal time into the game and contribute as little as possible and still have the same opportunity for gear as someone that has more time to spend in the game. Of course you disrespectfully call them "obsessive no lifers" because they have more free time to play the game. Do you also think athletes that don't go to most the practices should start in games over the athletes that attend every practice? Do you think that employees that work less should get paid the same as employees that work more? Could you imagine if your boss said, "you know these no lifers that come to work a lot, well we're going to pay everyone the same wage regardless of how many hours they work."

I've seen some good defense of rolls in an objective manner. Yours is a subjective me, me, me reason. Rolls work for some and don't work for some. A couple reason why we quit rolls-
A vit and defense mord helm dropped on our 24th mord kill. It made sense that this helm would go to the tank that had tanked every single mord up to this point. A ranger and mage wanted to roll on it so they'd have more health while lixing. To have a mage running around with this helm so they have more health while lixing seems way counter productive than it going to a tank. The mage won the roll and it was their first mord attendance. Sorry but while everyone should have the ability to have access to gear, I don't believe everyone should have equal access to the same gear. A void vit spear dropped next kill. It made sense that this would also go to a tank instead of some ranger running around lixing with a mord spear and using it to raise their ability.

Now with that being said, on Fingal, it's two clans that do all raid bosses and edl together. It's easy to do a loot distribution or order of gearing over rolls. If you're on a server where all clans just show up to all bosses, then it's always gonna be random and rolls prob work better. I don't judge a server based on how they want to do things. If it works for them, great. But players don't have to disguise rolls as the best system for all when they like rolls because they can put in minimal time and get better gear over those that are more active. And before anyone says that more rolls lead to more of a chance of getting gear. We had a player lose rolls on every helm and spear and had been to every mord and had lost to players who it was their first or second time. In this instance, rolls failed this player and he began to wonder why he even came to this boss. This isn't good when your top dps on the server says they give up.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: In defense of rolling

#150
Swan wrote:When you attend 100 mordys, then on the 101st the drop you've been waiting for you get outbid by someone who's attended 150 mordys. Again in a DKP system, which for the vast majority of clans is bidding, what drop you can get is still a chance. Not a machine deciding what number you get, but other people deciding how much time they want to spend bossing on the game, which bosses they show up to, what items they want and how much they're willing to pay. All that is out of your control.

And the statement "we're all here to play a game" is pretty much Epona's motto. You log on to CH to have fun, which means not taking the game super seriously. I've seen DKP sheet editing and inventory tracking and it's pretty much a second job, like accounting. Rolling keeps the game fast paced and solves loot distribution without turning it into a job. I doubt anyone on Epona would want to help manage DKP for the whole server. (I'd bet some would be willing to do it for their own clan though, but not necessary thankfully)



Just curious, how many mordy raids have you attended? How many in arawn? How many in crom? How many in epona?
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