Celtic Heroes

You do realize that some drops are very hard to get right? Like. If a clan pours a bunch of resources into gearing a guy with full DL/EDL it is not cool for that guy to turn around and leave.

It amazes me how short people are on ethics and a basic sense of right and wrong...

Here's the other side of the argument, and a question for you. Say a person gets geared with DL/EDL, and that he has camped and helped, and participated in gearing say... 5 other clanmates. Or say he's been with the clan a long time and helped get 100 EDL sets. Can you still say that that set belongs to the clan, and that the person didn't buy that set with the amount of time he helped other clan members get their sets?
*Edit* just clarifying I'm not choosing a side in the argument, I'm simply playing devil's advocate to help move the conversation along.

Quest gear, i say move on with, loot from bosses if the clan tells you its to be returned if you leave then you should return it

You do realize that some drops are very hard to get right? Like. If a clan pours a bunch of resources into gearing a guy with full DL/EDL it is not cool for that guy to turn around and leave.

It amazes me how short people are on ethics and a basic sense of right and wrong...

Here's the other side of the argument, and a question for you. Say a person gets geared with DL/EDL, and that he has camped and helped, and participated in gearing say... 5 other clanmates. Or say he's been with the clan a long time and helped get 100 EDL sets. Can you still say that that set belongs to the clan, and that the person didn't buy that set with the amount of time he helped other clan members get their sets?
*Edit* just clarifying I'm not choosing a side in the argument, I'm simply playing devil's advocate to help move the conversation along.

In resurgence in arawn as smelly as stated so many times we have 100+ sets lol.. But that aside out of that 100 think 10 are no longer in clan.. Ya sucks ppl don't have loyalties or ethics but if I am making the right choice in gearing 90% of the time that's pretty damn good from our clans perspective cause u never really truely know who is behind the screen and the numbers say 90% of them are good and loyal ppl

You do realize that some drops are very hard to get right? Like. If a clan pours a bunch of resources into gearing a guy with full DL/EDL it is not cool for that guy to turn around and leave.

It amazes me how short people are on ethics and a basic sense of right and wrong...

But this is a game and not real life. It's the persons individual game on there individual device, they shouldnt need to feel like they are trapped in a clan just cuz that clan helped to get them good gear as they do with all there players, that would be selfish of the clan to assume that.

You do realize that some drops are very hard to get right? Like. If a clan pours a bunch of resources into gearing a guy with full DL/EDL it is not cool for that guy to turn around and leave.

It amazes me how short people are on ethics and a basic sense of right and wrong...

But this is a game and not real life. It's the persons individual game on there individual device, they shouldnt need to feel like they are trapped in a clan just cuz that clan helped to get them good gear as they do with all there players, that would be selfish of the clan to assume that.

That's true that a person should not feel trapped if they do not like their situation. They should have the option to get out. That is how new clans are made, which is something happening on Rosmerta right now. Competition is actually good and healthy for a server to survive. The bosses out there aren't that hard. What is hard is competition. And it's the competition that drives us to play this game.

But I shudder each time a person says "it's just a game", because to me that's code for "I feel justified acting like a jerk because everyone else is just pixels on a screen." it might take place in a digital world, but there are people controlling the characters around you. It isn't Paper Mario where everything is an NPC.

Quest gear, i say move on with, loot from bosses if the clan tells you its to be returned if you leave then you should return it

I see what bitey is saying and I also see what you are saying. In terms of quest gear, you have to take it with you anyhow because those are no trade items. As far as someone helping gather 100 edl sets then leaving...well maybe that person paid his dues to the clan. I know it's a hotly debated issue and there's probably no right answer to it. Our clan takes the approach that the clan owns loot drops. Do i, in all cases, agree with it? Not always. If the clan splits up, who owns the gear then? Where is the players individual reward or incentive for helping the clan? However, on the flip side, the clan remains stronger and able to tackle bigger bosses if that gear is kept within the clan. I think a player has to decide if he is more concerned with helping the clan as a whole or if he is out to help himself. Both arguments have merit and I think the only fair answer is that there's no right or wrong answer. If you join a clan, knowing the rules, then you are honor bound to abide by them. If that clan is large enough to blacklist you from boss raids then you'd be pretty reckless to cross them.

...But I shudder each time a person says "it's just a game", because to me that's code for "I feel justified acting like a jerk because everyone else is just pixels on a screen." .....

Yes, it's a cop out. It's an excuse to be a selfish a-hole. IRL there are consequences to acting badly. To suggest that there should not be consequences in game is ridiculous.

You do realize that some drops are very hard to get right? Like. If a clan pours a bunch of resources into gearing a guy with full DL/EDL it is not cool for that guy to turn around and leave.

It amazes me how short people are on ethics and a basic sense of right and wrong...

Here's the other side of the argument, and a question for you. Say a person gets geared with DL/EDL, and that he has camped and helped, and participated in gearing say... 5 other clanmates. Or say he's been with the clan a long time and helped get 100 EDL sets. Can you still say that that set belongs to the clan, and that the person didn't buy that set with the amount of time he helped other clan members get their sets?

First of all, the whole reason a clan gives you armor is so that you CAN help others and help make the clan stronger as a whole and in return, you get a share of the armor, drops, and glory gained by the clan.

Second of all, if a person has helped get 5-100 suits of DL/EDL armor, then he has probably been with the clan anywhere from 3 months to a couple years. If you are on the short end of that, then that is still using the clan, as if they had known you would leave so soon, they would have given it to someone who they thought to be more loyal. If you are on the high end of that, it is still a betrayal as you have been in the clan a long time, are most likely a general or guardian, and people have learned to rely on you. In my opinion if you have gotten DL and gear in a clan you really shouldn't leave it

You do realize that some drops are very hard to get right? Like. If a clan pours a bunch of resources into gearing a guy with full DL/EDL it is not cool for that guy to turn around and leave.

It amazes me how short people are on ethics and a basic sense of right and wrong...

Here's the other side of the argument, and a question for you. Say a person gets geared with DL/EDL, and that he has camped and helped, and participated in gearing say... 5 other clanmates. Or say he's been with the clan a long time and helped get 100 EDL sets. Can you still say that that set belongs to the clan, and that the person didn't buy that set with the amount of time he helped other clan members get their sets?

First of all, the whole reason a clan gives you armor is so that you CAN help others and help make the clan stronger as a whole and in return, you get a share of the armor, drops, and glory gained by the clan.

Second of all, if a person has helped get 5-100 suits of DL/EDL armor, then he has probably been with the clan anywhere from 3 months to a couple years. If you are on the short end of that, then that is still using the clan, as if they had known you would leave so soon, they would have given it to someone who they thought to be more loyal. If you are on the high end of that, it is still a betrayal as you have been in the clan a long time, are most likely a general or guardian, and people have learned to rely on you. In my opinion if you have gotten DL and gear in a clan you really shouldn't leave it

So, if you're a female general in this clan and you feel stalked or sexually harassed by another long standing member and are no longer comfortable being in the clan with them, you should have to give up all of your loot in order to escape the situation? What if you just feel harassed in general? Surely there are exceptions? OTM'S take on gear is "once it's in your inventory it's yours." I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with either viewpoint here. I just think both have merit and, at the same time, both are fatally flawed. Also when the clan disbands, which all do in time, do you ask all members to turn their gear over to the chieftan? To solve this issue, perhaps OTM should make all drops bind on equip. That will forever end the debate.

Ok, this game is all about having fun and helping each other progress throughout the game. If someone wants to leave because they disagreed with the clan rules, then so be it, whatever makes them happy. Most dominant clans give out gear based on their participation and loyalty, that being said I'm sure most of these players have worked to get their gear. This gear was handed to them almost in a way of saying, thanks for your participation. So what if they left with drops, they earned it. What is not ok is when people leave the clan after aquiring a drop right after a boss and they did not donate it. We had this incident happen with our clan when snorri finally dropped a yellow crown (we are currently having a difficult time gearing dl weapons) and it landed on a particular player that has a shaky attitude. Once she got the crown she decided to give it to her friend who wasn't in our clan. We missed out on a dl quiver because of this incident and we all know how rare crowns are.