Celtic Heroes

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Re: Druids and Mages are being left in the other classes dus

#31
CrewsMachine wrote:
TwoForFlinching wrote:it sounds like you've built yourself solely for the purpose of soloing and not benefitting a group in any way.

If you're just casting Fireballs and Iceshards and slapping mobs with your wand and trying to get the kill yourself each time, rather than helping the overall benefits of a group, I have to say it seems like you're missing out on some key aspects of how to best utilize a mage. I wish you good luck, but I also see an lonely and unfulfilling road ahead for you.


Valid point, but sometimes we Mages would enjoy a drop or two. In a support role I've never gotten a drop, and I haven't the time nor inclination to beg for one. The game quickly becomes unenjoyable when it seems your sole purpose is to make sure someone else enjoys the spoils of war. We are just asking for a bit of parity. Nothing more, nothing less.


OMG class we have a genius with us!!!!
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Re: Druids and Mages are being left in the other classes dus

#33
TwoForFlinching wrote:
Mariner91 wrote:
Caliban wrote:
All of my points on tanks are to help the group. All. Taunt and Warcry are the only crowd control skills in the game and pure support. While soloing those, and to a lesser extent are useless. Bash has to be maxed. Taunt and Cry need a goodly amount of points if you dont want chaos. Tanks are a support class if thought about from the very common single dps toon as the only 'non support' class. My (neglected) rogue has max smoke and is h2h for interrupts.

From a grouping point of view all dps is just support as well. They cannot survive and kill bosses. They cannot survive multiple mobs. They can kill one mob at a time within a couple of levels of their own, maybe up to 3 stars. Woo hoo... My tank and Druid can survive many bosses, but not kill them in any reasonable amount of time. Add a Mage and they can. Add rogue/ranger and the mobs die quick ish. The whole 'support' conversation, as it is, is a red herring, IMO.


Q F T !

All valid points. In MMOs, all classes are technically "support," designed to complement the strengths/weaknesses of other group members. At the same time, we can all wish to be stonger at something that another class is better at (Mages want more dps, Rangers want spear skills, Rogues want throwing daggers, etc.). Yet we still we are left to evaluate the skills available to us and learn to play within the parameters provided.

The part I got hung up on is the a fact that a Mage can acknowlege that they are lacking offensive skills, yet still refuse to consider casting cloak on a warrior, or casting a pierce lure that multiplies the damage dealt when grouped with a couple rangers or rogues.

Mages in fact are quite versatile. The dilemma is that a single Mage cannot possibly provide all the benefits available to them. Thus the value of grouping. It benefits a group/clan to have a Mage that specializes in say Fire and Pierce lures, where another may specialize in Ice and Slash lures. Just like it benefits a group/clan to have different Rogues with different maxed skills like Smoke, Rend, and Poison... otherwise they all just overlay and cancel each others' spells.

HoenheimOfLight wrote:Any more brain busters?

Explain to me how you're going to tank and fireball and firestorm the Lavalord to death?


I think the issue is that mages are too versatile. As there are 5 different lures and a finite number of skill points. It just makes more sense to make sure you can always add value in the fight by not investing on any of the other lures (assasin, soldiers or magic). In addition, I raised this pt in another thread, the main pt of a Mage is not support. If so, these lures will be available in lirs reach as part of the beginners quest.

Again back to the topic. I fully agree Lux and dropped equipment favours non casters. This is also true for the quest items. Frozen armour and weapons add cold damage which has no benefit to us. I would have preferred adding ability points to fire and ice skills.

Re: Druids and Mages are being left in the other classes dus

#34
That's simple. As someone said in the other recent topic about mages, this game is gear-based. Therefore, the better your gear is for your class, the better you'll do.
As for now, no damage addition works on spell damage, and we don't have any class specific helpful item. Regen items are for all classes, and that's good. But casters need some specific items. Even the grimoire and the orb aren't specific to them, and yet they don't benefit any other class since all the other lux items have better stats for them, yet the regen is tuned down like it's as useful to any class as an ammy of rejuv.
Also, at high-level, most mobs have high fire/ice resistances (some are even immune to fire, dammit !), you're bound to play until ow as a dps class, then, when you begin in there, you suddenly find out all the skills and the practice you've got at low levels is basically useless. Mages are the only class that has to change gameplay in ow more than grouping to train. They litterally have to relearn how to play their own class.

That's why mages, and in a lesser way (save for items, where they share the same issues) are not in any way a powerful class. They obviously need tweaks.

Re: Druids and Mages are being left in the other classes dus

#36
HoenheimOfLight wrote:
TwoForFlinching wrote:I think part of the problem in the original post is a little misguided...(though some valid points are definitely made) The issue may be that you want mages and druids to be able to lead the offensive side of fights, like warriors, rogues, and rangers. Despite the fact that they have some damage-dealing skills, Druids/Mages have a plethora of support skills that really suggest they are not meant to be damage-dealing classes, but more role-players in groups. They are indeed very valuable classes for their support skills:

Druids - Group/Individual Heals & Regen, Abundance, Wards, etc.
Mages - Cloak, Lures, Sacrifice, etc. (as a rogue, I particularly appreciate being the beneficiary of all of these skills!)

Rather than wanting these classes to be the offensive equivalent of other classes, it might be better to look at what is available and set more reasonable expectations as to how they are expected be used. You just have to make the best of the cards you're dealt.


Everything this person said about a Mage was introduced after update 3 and as for druids of coarse they are support.
But what this person doesn't understand is that they have built up the other classes, the last thing I want my lvl 147 Mage to be doing is buffing the warrior that already has a full radiant set. He already has enough power.
Books of alt are in game to switch to a support Mage when needed.
the point of the post is to show that all items in the game that have some stat besides a mp tick are for other classes, you even see a Mage with heroic gloves on, what about a bloodlust helm, better yet a bodkin?
If you have, then that Mage obviously doesn't understand how this game works magic damage/auto damage.
And if you think I'm gunna use any of my precious skill points on sacrafice to help you gain magic, you're absolutely insane.
WE'VE BEEN LOOKED OVER AND IT'S TIME FOR US TO FINALLY GET ITEMS THAT BENIFIT US AS CASTERS.
We got the tick items already but every other class does too, we need that 1 or 2 items that are separated for mage and Druid classes.


Really, there is one post before this disagreeing with your initial premise. Then you yourself start to take the entire thread a different place, meaning you are now mostly trolling and abusing yourself. Too bad really.

I do in fact agree with your OP, though I don't typically find your tone useful. I have always been confused by why haste gloves did not reduce cast time. Game engine apparently.

I am sure other people have a clearer sense than me... Does it seem that Aggy drops a lot of Mage and Druid gear? I understand it can't be compared to the whole Radiant/Earthstone thing, but maybe, if it is true, this is an indication that OTM is already on this, granted insufficiently. Dunno.
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Re: Druids and Mages are being left in the other classes dus

#37
Ty all got getting back on topic and finally seeing things for how they are.

If energy regain is a problem for all classes to have then do this
Heroic spell caster ammy:
Energy +350
Focus 50
Mp tick of +50
Class: Mage, Druid

(I understand that focus give energy so why both, because focus now increases the total damage and a neck with a total of +150 focus is simply to over powered)
There a small fix in the ocean of Mage and Druid problems.
Image

This is what happens when you challenge the better clan on sever.
Your ass shoots flames, literally your ass will shoot flames.

Re: Druids and Mages are being left in the other classes dus

#38
In Avalons experience with Aggy we have found enough books to make a small library and some really great Druid and Mage rings and bracelets . We also have a bunch of dps drops so I can't say that he is weighted toward casters but i can say the best items I have seen seem to be for casters.

Check out Avalons website and the attached wiki to see many of the awesome Mage drops

ONI , an Avalon Mage would destroy Harry potter in a heads up duel :)
Last edited by Eliminater on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eliminater
Clan Avalon
http://avalon.guildlaunch.com/
Morrigan

ABOLISH TARGET LOCK
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Re: Druids and Mages are being left in the other classes dus

#39
HoenheimOfLight wrote:
CrewsMachine wrote:
TwoForFlinching wrote:it sounds like you've built yourself solely for the purpose of soloing and not benefitting a group in any way.

If you're just casting Fireballs and Iceshards and slapping mobs with your wand and trying to get the kill yourself each time, rather than helping the overall benefits of a group, I have to say it seems like you're missing out on some key aspects of how to best utilize a mage. I wish you good luck, but I also see an lonely and unfulfilling road ahead for you.


Valid point, but sometimes we Mages would enjoy a drop or two. In a support role I've never gotten a drop, and I haven't the time nor inclination to beg for one. The game quickly becomes unenjoyable when it seems your sole purpose is to make sure someone else enjoys the spoils of war. We are just asking for a bit of parity. Nothing more, nothing less.


OMG class we have a genius with us!!!!


Huh? Should I smile or frown? Not much of a genius after all. :D
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