Celtic Heroes

The Official Forum for Celtic Heroes, the 3D MMORPG for iOS and Android Devices

Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#31
itemfinder wrote:
Mdunc1982 wrote:
Zkills wrote:Yes that too lol. Not just people who log daily though, people who log to actually play the game outside of endgame bossing. The more content you explore outside of the boss grind, the more likely you’ll come across and meet those newer players. Greed is a big problem in this game most definitely. If you really think about it the game revolves around greed because of the players. Even free servers such as Epona aren’t immune to it, the greed shines brighter there actually. Everything from hoarding drops behind clan walls to players overpricing everything they get their grubby hands on. Every server is plagued with it.

One of the most prominent problems new players bring up is the lack of help from higher levels, because for whatever reason the higher the level people get the more entitled they feel they are (which is why I nickname this game Celtic Egos lol). Not saying everyone is like this, but there is a large population of higher level players that are. It’s like people forget that they too were once noobs when they first started the game.


High levels being of no help to new players is a huge problem. They already have everything they need. Can kill any boss in game. They set clan rules that you HAVE to be lvl 150+ to join or whatever. Some set up feeder clans but it's mostly just their alts and they dont log their alts much so it's just you and 2 other noobs getting almost no help for weeks on end. Not saying they never help it's just a tenth of what it used to be a couple years ago. They can blame dev's all they want but ultimately if this game fails it's because of egotistical people making the game not even fun for the rest of the server.


No you got it all wrong. Its like a mix and match sweet shop at a cinema. Theres good and bads.


Unfortunately the "good ones" are also friends with the "bad ones" most the time. I never said there weren't good people in this game. They are just busy doing other things in tower, corrupted gardens, carrowmore and rarely ever bother to help. If they did meteoric and frozen bosses wouldnt be constantly up at all times on most servers. Only the rare drops do they hunt regularly like space rems and mind tabs because they sell them for anywhere from 10-80k depending on server. I've been playing for years so I know exactly how people operate. So instead of helping you get these rare drops they keep them and sell them at a price you cant even afford.
Brevity is the soul of wit so i will talk your ears off.

Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#32
itemfinder wrote:
Eragon123 wrote:
itemfinder wrote:
Yes but you are loosing players. Come on admit it.


He does “admit” it, but his point is that it is a natural part of any game - players come, and players go.

A lot of users here on the forums tend to focus only on endgame players whenever they talk about “CH Players”.
“The game is dying” = less endgame players than there used to be.
“No one new joins the game” = not as many people are hitting endgame status fast enough.

The game is large, and when you only focus on the last 40 levels, you have blinders on. Of course not many people are going to make it to endgame - it requires a crazy amount of time and dedication that very few people are willing to put into a MMO, and a mobile one at that. Most servers do tend to have a decent number of lower leveled players at any time, but like Schwing says, most active endgame players don’t really venture out of carrow/tower/castle.

I would agree that a large reason why players might leave is if they feel alone - as mentioned earlier, most clans have minimum level reqs - which is great for bossing...but means that newer players can’t get into a larger and active clan. Sometimes small clans spring up that tend to attract new players, but othertimes no one wants to start one, so players get stuck soloing, which sucks - in my opinion, the best part of CH is the social aspect.


Yeh then they leave. There i think looking at it all is that there are more leaving than joining.


When you are only looking at players over 180 or over 200, yes that could very well be true. At the game in general (not level specific) I would hazard a guess that the numbers are pretty even - which is what a game needs to survive. If there are more coming than going, then servers get clogged up with more people needing gear than gear is dropping. Vice versa, and there's not enough players in the game (of any level).

When discussing endgame population issues, the question then becomes: which is more of an issue? Is it too hard to get to endgame, or is there not enough content to get keep endgame players occupied? My opinion is that it's the former, rather than latter - there's a ton of stuff to do for endgame players (though not for players who have been endgame for 3-4 years, which is completely understandable).
Have questions about anything? PM me!
Alternatively, you can occasionally find me online in Sulis.
Go team #WorldSkillsUSA2019!
Harbinger of cold hard logic and reason.
Check out the player-run Celtic Heroes Database!: celticheroesdb.com!

Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#33
Eragon123 wrote:
itemfinder wrote:
Eragon123 wrote:
He does “admit” it, but his point is that it is a natural part of any game - players come, and players go.

A lot of users here on the forums tend to focus only on endgame players whenever they talk about “CH Players”.
“The game is dying” = less endgame players than there used to be.
“No one new joins the game” = not as many people are hitting endgame status fast enough.

The game is large, and when you only focus on the last 40 levels, you have blinders on. Of course not many people are going to make it to endgame - it requires a crazy amount of time and dedication that very few people are willing to put into a MMO, and a mobile one at that. Most servers do tend to have a decent number of lower leveled players at any time, but like Schwing says, most active endgame players don’t really venture out of carrow/tower/castle.

I would agree that a large reason why players might leave is if they feel alone - as mentioned earlier, most clans have minimum level reqs - which is great for bossing...but means that newer players can’t get into a larger and active clan. Sometimes small clans spring up that tend to attract new players, but othertimes no one wants to start one, so players get stuck soloing, which sucks - in my opinion, the best part of CH is the social aspect.


Yeh then they leave. There i think looking at it all is that there are more leaving than joining.


When you are only looking at players over 180 or over 200, yes that could very well be true. At the game in general (not level specific) I would hazard a guess that the numbers are pretty even - which is what a game needs to survive. If there are more coming than going, then servers get clogged up with more people needing gear than gear is dropping. Vice versa, and there's not enough players in the game (of any level).

When discussing endgame population issues, the question then becomes: which is more of an issue? Is it too hard to get to endgame, or is there not enough content to get keep endgame players occupied? My opinion is that it's the former, rather than latter - there's a ton of stuff to do for endgame players (though not for players who have been endgame for 3-4 years, which is completely understandable).


Why do we have some really irrelevant convos? Lol
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Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#34
itemfinder wrote:
Eragon123 wrote:
itemfinder wrote:
Yeh then they leave. There i think looking at it all is that there are more leaving than joining.


When you are only looking at players over 180 or over 200, yes that could very well be true. At the game in general (not level specific) I would hazard a guess that the numbers are pretty even - which is what a game needs to survive. If there are more coming than going, then servers get clogged up with more people needing gear than gear is dropping. Vice versa, and there's not enough players in the game (of any level).

When discussing endgame population issues, the question then becomes: which is more of an issue? Is it too hard to get to endgame, or is there not enough content to get keep endgame players occupied? My opinion is that it's the former, rather than latter - there's a ton of stuff to do for endgame players (though not for players who have been endgame for 3-4 years, which is completely understandable).


Why do we have some really irrelevant convos? Lol


I think my post is totally relevant to the topic being discussed.

The OP says that no new players are coming in - my post is simply pointing out that that is a skewed view. New players are coming in, they just aren't staying long enough for endgame players to really notice them.
I also make a few suggestions as to what might be the reason for why they aren't staying - the OP started off with a plan to bring in new players, I am simply countering with ways that we could keep the new players that we are getting, rather than trying to get even more, and keep losing them for the same reasons we lose the others.
Have questions about anything? PM me!
Alternatively, you can occasionally find me online in Sulis.
Go team #WorldSkillsUSA2019!
Harbinger of cold hard logic and reason.
Check out the player-run Celtic Heroes Database!: celticheroesdb.com!

Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#35
Eragon summed up the long and short of it quite well. Even so, it’s good to hear confirmation from a Red. sad that it’ll likely be entirely misconstrued in the future might just be a pessimist, but I feel like people could spin it that the devs know the game is dying and are desperately trying to get new players while not doing anything to keep them (just to clarify in advance, that is NOT the case and Schwing said as much)
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Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#36
Not sure about your server, but another key thing to blame for lack of helpful endgame layers is the constant competition with eachother. (dom clans got it a little easier, competing clans...oh boy.)

If your clan kills near all DL and EDL and eg, there's not much time of the day to actually notice/help lower level players. One might say, but you can take a break?

Not exactly, with the lack of ways to get endgame gear vs the number of people you're competing against, if you don't rack up DKP or attendance points or whatever system you use, you're not going to get anything good any time soon.

Maybe its just my server but we got some um...very dedicated players. Most don't miss a single boss at times, not a single 4*. If there isn't a boss to kill, they're either offline or on-call at their jobs or doing much needed tasks that they held off for hours while they waited for a break. When you're waiting for that rare BT ring for your class, especially rogues, you need to be on top of the activity chart or working hard to be one of very few to be eligible for DG.

(heres a rant)

We have a no lifer fire mage in my clan who wins all the drops. ._. x3 my lifetime DKP. He could outbid me and then do it a couple more times. ;-; My only hope is he gets so fat on gear he will run out of stuff to bid on (upgrade able dino drops don't help :v) Seems in my clan the fire mage is the new rogue so that doesn't help either. Playing hours a day just going from boss to boss is just another regular day for these folk.

(end rant)

Celtic Heroes is NOT new player friendly. I have never seen a game so anti-endgame. I can't recall a game where auto regen health was not a thing. I can't remember when I had issues with my mana/energy in a game. Never seen a game where an item was near impossible to get (DG). I have never played a game before that had you wait 3 days for a boss. I have never seen a game that near requires you to use xp boosters to get to endgame. I have never seen a game before, that pretty much makes it IMPOSSIBLE to level up without an xp booster. I have never seen a game that dropped three items only that required more than 20 people.

Some say as soon as VR gets a strong following on their new game they might close down Celtic Heroes just like how once they got a new studio, they shut down the old one. I say good.

This game is screwed up beyond repair. Its easier to make a whole new game than fix the abomination that was created here.
Ashley A - 222 Mage - Novalis - Mabon
000000000000000 - 216 Rogue - Novalis - Mabon
Azona - 210 Druid - Novalis - Mabon

Then some Epona toons yo

Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#37
Ash A wrote:Not sure about your server, but another key thing to blame for lack of helpful endgame layers is the constant competition with eachother. (dom clans got it a little easier, competing clans...oh boy.)

If your clan kills near all DL and EDL and eg, there's not much time of the day to actually notice/help lower level players. One might say, but you can take a break?

Not exactly, with the lack of ways to get endgame gear vs the number of people you're competing against, if you don't rack up DKP or attendance points or whatever system you use, you're not going to get anything good any time soon.

Maybe its just my server but we got some um...very dedicated players. Most don't miss a single boss at times, not a single 4*. If there isn't a boss to kill, they're either offline or on-call at their jobs or doing much needed tasks that they held off for hours while they waited for a break. When you're waiting for that rare BT ring for your class, especially rogues, you need to be on top of the activity chart or working hard to be one of very few to be eligible for DG.

(heres a rant)

We have a no lifer fire mage in my clan who wins all the drops. ._. x3 my lifetime DKP. He could outbid me and then do it a couple more times. ;-; My only hope is he gets so fat on gear he will run out of stuff to bid on (upgrade able dino drops don't help :v) Seems in my clan the fire mage is the new rogue so that doesn't help either. Playing hours a day just going from boss to boss is just another regular day for these folk.

(end rant)

Celtic Heroes is NOT new player friendly. I have never seen a game so anti-endgame. I can't recall a game where auto regen health was not a thing. I can't remember when I had issues with my mana/energy in a game. Never seen a game where an item was near impossible to get (DG). I have never played a game before that had you wait 3 days for a boss. I have never seen a game that near requires you to use xp boosters to get to endgame. I have never seen a game before, that pretty much makes it IMPOSSIBLE to level up without an xp booster. I have never seen a game that dropped three items only that required more than 20 people.

Some say as soon as VR gets a strong following on their new game they might close down Celtic Heroes just like how once they got a new studio, they shut down the old one. I say good.

This game is screwed up beyond repair. Its easier to make a whole new game than fix the abomination that was created here.


This is how I see. VR realized CH was designed badly and almost impossible to fix some failures. I can’t say the opposite since I’m not from VR team. They have the data and statistics and it’s their product so decisions will be theirs.

Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#38
Ash A wrote:We have a no lifer fire mage in my clan who wins all the drops. ._. x3 my lifetime DKP. He could outbid me and then do it a couple more times. ;-; My only hope is he gets so fat on gear he will run out of stuff to bid on (upgrade able dino drops don't help :v) Seems in my clan the fire mage is the new rogue so that doesn't help either. Playing hours a day just going from boss to boss is just another regular day for these folk

That’s the biggest flaw with dkp. You have two types of people in this game, those who treat it like it’s the real world and those who treat it like it’s a game... the people who treat it like it’s the real world and think this game is a part time job rack up so much dkp that the people who treat it like it’s a game have no chances of competing against those players with dkp.

It’s a game, everyone should have an equal chance of obtaining gear. That I’m sure is another reason why players leave this game because they can never get anything good, it’s not new player friendly in any way. The way drops work and how clans have built around those mechanics are largely to blame. If I were designing this game I would make it so that everyone present at the boss has a chance to obtain a drop if you meet a certain dps threshold. That would make things fun for everyone. I’ve played MMOs that use that loot system and they’re a whole lot more fun and satisfying than what is used in Celtic Heroes.

And I would not limit the drops to 3 or 4.... everyone has a certain percentage to obtain a drop of any kind, meaning 20 things could drop at once on individual players or nothing at all, although unlikely. This would ultimately get rid of competition, prevent clans from hoarding loot from the rest of the server and, yes that’s right, force players to work together... what??? Omg!!! Players actually cooperating with each other instead of constantly fighting each other?? No way! MMOs are always about players cooperating with each other, the competition is always found in the PvP... always, or atleast all of the great MMORPGs.

Quick example. There’s this MMO I started playing this winter break which is pretty fun. After a few days of grinding out bosses (it takes like an hour max to get to max level and participate in endgame content, but the drawback of that is perma death) I managed to get one of the rarest quivers in the game to drop on me which has a 0.125% chance of dropping. A veteran player who was there said he’s been looking for the quiver for months with no luck. That is what new player friendly content is. Knowing I have the same chance at obtaining loot as someone who’s been playing for years... it’s fun and its satisfying and it makes me come back for more.
Zkills, Proud general of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers. Server banned for doing PvP in arena.

Can you do the impossible?
Celtic Heroes Ultimate Challenge

Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#39
Zkills wrote:
Ash A wrote:We have a no lifer fire mage in my clan who wins all the drops. ._. x3 my lifetime DKP. He could outbid me and then do it a couple more times. ;-; My only hope is he gets so fat on gear he will run out of stuff to bid on (upgrade able dino drops don't help :v) Seems in my clan the fire mage is the new rogue so that doesn't help either. Playing hours a day just going from boss to boss is just another regular day for these folk

That’s the biggest flaw with dkp. You have two types of people in this game, those who treat it like it’s the real world and those who treat it like it’s a game... the people who treat it like it’s the real world and think this game is a part time job rack up so much dkp that the people who treat it like it’s a game have no chances of competing against those players with dkp.

It’s a game, everyone should have an equal chance of obtaining gear. That I’m sure is another reason why players leave this game because they can never get anything good, it’s not new player friendly in any way. The way drops work and how clans have built around those mechanics are largely to blame. If I were designing this game I would make it so that everyone present at the boss has a chance to obtain a drop if you meet a certain dps threshold. That would make things fun for everyone. I’ve played MMOs that use that loot system and they’re a whole lot more fun and satisfying than what is used in Celtic Heroes.

And I would not limit the drops to 3 or 4.... everyone has a certain percentage to obtain a drop of any kind, meaning 20 things could drop at once on individual players or nothing at all, although unlikely. This would ultimately get rid of competition, prevent clans from hoarding loot from the rest of the server and, yes that’s right, force players to work together... what??? Omg!!! Players actually cooperating with each other instead of constantly fighting each other?? No way! MMOs are always about players cooperating with each other, the competition is always found in the PvP... always, or atleast all of the great MMORPGs.

Quick example. There’s this MMO I started playing this winter break which is pretty fun. After a few days of grinding out bosses (it takes like an hour max to get to max level and participate in endgame content, but the drawback of that is perma death) I managed to get one of the rarest quivers in the game to drop on me which has a 0.125% chance of dropping. A veteran player who was there said he’s been looking for the quiver for months with no luck. That is what new player friendly content is. Knowing I have the same chance at obtaining loot as someone who’s been playing for years... it’s fun and its satisfying and it makes me come back for more.


If you're implying that Epona's system is any better please don't. Not even close. I've played both worlds and what I can say is at least I actually can win drops with dkp. Simple but very much needed items and easy to get for free and maybe even from clank bank for free without spending millions.
Ashley A - 222 Mage - Novalis - Mabon
000000000000000 - 216 Rogue - Novalis - Mabon
Azona - 210 Druid - Novalis - Mabon

Then some Epona toons yo

Re: My masterful plan to bring in new players

#40
Ash A wrote:
Zkills wrote:
Ash A wrote:We have a no lifer fire mage in my clan who wins all the drops. ._. x3 my lifetime DKP. He could outbid me and then do it a couple more times. ;-; My only hope is he gets so fat on gear he will run out of stuff to bid on (upgrade able dino drops don't help :v) Seems in my clan the fire mage is the new rogue so that doesn't help either. Playing hours a day just going from boss to boss is just another regular day for these folk

That’s the biggest flaw with dkp. You have two types of people in this game, those who treat it like it’s the real world and those who treat it like it’s a game... the people who treat it like it’s the real world and think this game is a part time job rack up so much dkp that the people who treat it like it’s a game have no chances of competing against those players with dkp.

It’s a game, everyone should have an equal chance of obtaining gear. That I’m sure is another reason why players leave this game because they can never get anything good, it’s not new player friendly in any way. The way drops work and how clans have built around those mechanics are largely to blame. If I were designing this game I would make it so that everyone present at the boss has a chance to obtain a drop if you meet a certain dps threshold. That would make things fun for everyone. I’ve played MMOs that use that loot system and they’re a whole lot more fun and satisfying than what is used in Celtic Heroes.

And I would not limit the drops to 3 or 4.... everyone has a certain percentage to obtain a drop of any kind, meaning 20 things could drop at once on individual players or nothing at all, although unlikely. This would ultimately get rid of competition, prevent clans from hoarding loot from the rest of the server and, yes that’s right, force players to work together... what??? Omg!!! Players actually cooperating with each other instead of constantly fighting each other?? No way! MMOs are always about players cooperating with each other, the competition is always found in the PvP... always, or atleast all of the great MMORPGs.

Quick example. There’s this MMO I started playing this winter break which is pretty fun. After a few days of grinding out bosses (it takes like an hour max to get to max level and participate in endgame content, but the drawback of that is perma death) I managed to get one of the rarest quivers in the game to drop on me which has a 0.125% chance of dropping. A veteran player who was there said he’s been looking for the quiver for months with no luck. That is what new player friendly content is. Knowing I have the same chance at obtaining loot as someone who’s been playing for years... it’s fun and its satisfying and it makes me come back for more.


If you're implying that Epona's system is any better please don't. Not even close. I've played both worlds and what I can say is at least I actually can win drops with dkp. Simple but very much needed items and easy to get for free and maybe even from clank bank for free without spending millions.

I’m basically implying that yes, Epona does it right and makes the most out of the drop mechanics. The server is wildly popular for a reason (people are actually leaving because it’s getting way too overpopulated). The problem is within the drop mechanics themselves, because 3-4 drops from a whole raid of 2-3 pages of players for any given raid is ridiculous and there’s isn’t enough to go around. Epona proves that a drop system like I explained would work and be much more popular than how things are now.
Zkills, Proud general of the beloved KodiakReavers of Belenus, the G.O.A.T clan

Professor/Detective Zkills, op mage of Epona, chieftain of KodiakReavers. Server banned for doing PvP in arena.

Can you do the impossible?
Celtic Heroes Ultimate Challenge

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