Celtic Heroes

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Re: Against the dominance

#11
Lucerin wrote:
Rikitt wrote:How to break a dominant clan 101:

1) Talk in private to a select few of people to see how they feel about their clan. Do they like the distribution system? Do they like their leaders? Which leaders do they not like and why? Do they wish they could do something different?

2) Approach the leaders you feel are most open minded. Ask them these same questions in number 1.

3) If you can gather at least 20% of the clan is interested in change or fails to trust their leaders, then you have what can be the militia to start your revolution.

4) Start out by suggesting new, probably unsatisfactory ideas in an attempt to illicit messages from leaders resembling a form of dictatorship. Use these to message players that you think this leader is unfit to hold their position.

5) Attempt suggesting radical changes. Do your clan members control what happens in the clan? Why not suggest to give them the power to vote on new leaders? The more distrust in one particular leader the more likely people will agree and want to be able to vote that leader out. Others will also like to have their voice matter, but might be too afraid to stir the pot. Therefore you should offer secret polls where votes can be counted and no names will appear.

6) Suggest a radical change in the direction you actually want to change to. Explain how it will benefit the server and provide growth to it. This will be the toughest challenge, but the more outspoken people will tend to lead the charge from here.

7) Keep picking at certain players you want to break down and get them to show their ugly side. The uglier they get the more the other players will not want to be around them and tend to agree more with your line of thought. Revolutionizing a server can take months to a year. But with the right patience, tact, and an accumulation of dirty behavior you can get any clan to break apart.


So you are advocating actual deception, maliciousness, manipulation, and being an all around bad human to attempt to unseat a dom clan?

This is the behavior of a sociopath. And any dom clan that has been around a while has had to deal with your type before.


Doesn't mean it's a bad thing, corruption within a clan isn't a rare thing and if you can turn that into an advantage then I'd say fair game on their side and tough luck on the clan.
Ascension

226+ Rogue
221+ Mage
160+ Warrior
220+ Mage
190 Locker
160+ Druid

Image

Rogue BT Kill 09/20/2019

39th Full Doch, 14th Rogue - Danu

Re: Against the dominance

#12
Shivahh wrote:
Lucerin wrote:
Rikitt wrote:How to break a dominant clan 101:

1) Talk in private to a select few of people to see how they feel about their clan. Do they like the distribution system? Do they like their leaders? Which leaders do they not like and why? Do they wish they could do something different?

2) Approach the leaders you feel are most open minded. Ask them these same questions in number 1.

3) If you can gather at least 20% of the clan is interested in change or fails to trust their leaders, then you have what can be the militia to start your revolution.

4) Start out by suggesting new, probably unsatisfactory ideas in an attempt to illicit messages from leaders resembling a form of dictatorship. Use these to message players that you think this leader is unfit to hold their position.

5) Attempt suggesting radical changes. Do your clan members control what happens in the clan? Why not suggest to give them the power to vote on new leaders? The more distrust in one particular leader the more likely people will agree and want to be able to vote that leader out. Others will also like to have their voice matter, but might be too afraid to stir the pot. Therefore you should offer secret polls where votes can be counted and no names will appear.

6) Suggest a radical change in the direction you actually want to change to. Explain how it will benefit the server and provide growth to it. This will be the toughest challenge, but the more outspoken people will tend to lead the charge from here.

7) Keep picking at certain players you want to break down and get them to show their ugly side. The uglier they get the more the other players will not want to be around them and tend to agree more with your line of thought. Revolutionizing a server can take months to a year. But with the right patience, tact, and an accumulation of dirty behavior you can get any clan to break apart.


So you are advocating actual deception, maliciousness, manipulation, and being an all around bad human to attempt to unseat a dom clan?

This is the behavior of a sociopath. And any dom clan that has been around a while has had to deal with your type before.


Doesn't mean it's a bad thing, corruption within a clan isn't a rare thing and if you can turn that into an advantage then I'd say fair game on their side and tough luck on the clan.


Sociopathic behavior in a game based on working together with others is generally not a good thing.
Clan Relentless
Praetorian V - 220 Warrior
PocketHeals - 220 Druid
Lucerin - 221 Ranger
The Bazaar - Trader

Re: Against the dominance

#13
Lucerin wrote:
Shivahh wrote:
Lucerin wrote:
So you are advocating actual deception, maliciousness, manipulation, and being an all around bad human to attempt to unseat a dom clan?

This is the behavior of a sociopath. And any dom clan that has been around a while has had to deal with your type before.


Doesn't mean it's a bad thing, corruption within a clan isn't a rare thing and if you can turn that into an advantage then I'd say fair game on their side and tough luck on the clan.


Sociopathic behavior in a game based on working together with others is generally not a good thing.


It's not as sociopathic as you make it out to be, yes peoples opinions can be swayed by others but if you're really being convinced by someone else that the current clan isnt your taste then the final decisions on you, and you're pretty much agreeing that that's how you feel about the clan.
Ascension

226+ Rogue
221+ Mage
160+ Warrior
220+ Mage
190 Locker
160+ Druid

Image

Rogue BT Kill 09/20/2019

39th Full Doch, 14th Rogue - Danu

Re: Against the dominance

#14
Rikitt wrote:How to break a dominant clan 101:

1) Talk in private to a select few of people to see how they feel about their clan. Do they like the distribution system? Do they like their leaders? Which leaders do they not like and why? Do they wish they could do something different?

2) Approach the leaders you feel are most open minded. Ask them these same questions in number 1.

3) If you can gather at least 20% of the clan is interested in change or fails to trust their leaders, then you have what can be the militia to start your revolution.

4) Start out by suggesting new, probably unsatisfactory ideas in an attempt to illicit messages from leaders resembling a form of dictatorship. Use these to message players that you think this leader is unfit to hold their position.

5) Attempt suggesting radical changes. Do your clan members control what happens in the clan? Why not suggest to give them the power to vote on new leaders? The more distrust in one particular leader the more likely people will agree and want to be able to vote that leader out. Others will also like to have their voice matter, but might be too afraid to stir the pot. Therefore you should offer secret polls where votes can be counted and no names will appear.

6) Suggest a radical change in the direction you actually want to change to. Explain how it will benefit the server and provide growth to it. This will be the toughest challenge, but the more outspoken people will tend to lead the charge from here.

7) Keep picking at certain players you want to break down and get them to show their ugly side. The uglier they get the more the other players will not want to be around them and tend to agree more with your line of thought. Revolutionizing a server can take months to a year. But with the right patience, tact, and an accumulation of dirty behavior you can get any clan to break apart.


Wow he's actually serious, that's sad. If you find it necessary to stoop so low to get ahead in a game maybe put the device down and get some fresh air.

Re: Against the dominance

#15
Lucerin wrote:
Rikitt wrote:How to break a dominant clan 101:

1) Talk in private to a select few of people to see how they feel about their clan. Do they like the distribution system? Do they like their leaders? Which leaders do they not like and why? Do they wish they could do something different?

2) Approach the leaders you feel are most open minded. Ask them these same questions in number 1.

3) If you can gather at least 20% of the clan is interested in change or fails to trust their leaders, then you have what can be the militia to start your revolution.

4) Start out by suggesting new, probably unsatisfactory ideas in an attempt to illicit messages from leaders resembling a form of dictatorship. Use these to message players that you think this leader is unfit to hold their position.

5) Attempt suggesting radical changes. Do your clan members control what happens in the clan? Why not suggest to give them the power to vote on new leaders? The more distrust in one particular leader the more likely people will agree and want to be able to vote that leader out. Others will also like to have their voice matter, but might be too afraid to stir the pot. Therefore you should offer secret polls where votes can be counted and no names will appear.

6) Suggest a radical change in the direction you actually want to change to. Explain how it will benefit the server and provide growth to it. This will be the toughest challenge, but the more outspoken people will tend to lead the charge from here.

7) Keep picking at certain players you want to break down and get them to show their ugly side. The uglier they get the more the other players will not want to be around them and tend to agree more with your line of thought. Revolutionizing a server can take months to a year. But with the right patience, tact, and an accumulation of dirty behavior you can get any clan to break apart.


So you are advocating actual deception, maliciousness, manipulation, and being an all around bad human to attempt to unseat a dom clan?

This is the behavior of a sociopath. And any dom clan that has been around a while has had to deal with your type before.

If the dom clan is withholding drops from the rest of the world and preventing perfectly good people from being able to enjoy the game, then yes, they do deserve it. There are a good amount of dom clans that just cut off invites when they have enough people, or exile others just out of dislike for them(even when they haven't done anything wrong).

These tips have potential, and can help even out the odds. It's not like you are going to have much of a chance fighting a clan that is clearly better then yours, sometimes you have to get creative to make things happen.
World - Lugh
Furyion - 190 Ice Mage
Lavalord - 60 PvP Warrior
Keepin' it old school.
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Re: Against the dominance

#16
I’ll only speak for my clan of underdogs. We simply don’t give up. We keep pushing, against odds that become less and less in our favor every single day. My clan has fought for years, it’s leaders know nothing else. My fellow clansman, they know nothing else. We log for every unox due and we try to outlock. We log for proteus dues against T10 dg rangers decked out in gele and bt gear and we freaking try (assuming we have a decent group of course). Many days are rough, they make us question if any of it is worth it. If the millions we’ve invested in our toons are worth it. If all the struggling and pushing is worth it. Then we have good days, we out lock this clan of dg t10 over-geared toons. And it feels so damn good. We treat our clannies with love and respect, because we have one thing the dom clan, in all its grandeur and overwhelming mass has lost; the familial bond. We fight together, we cry together, we get frustrated together. And in the end, we are together.

What we do for our server goes largely unappreciated. We keep the competition alive. Without competition a sever is essentially dead, in my opinion at least. There is no joy in free gear, no real sense of accomplishment. The joy comes from fighting for it and earning it. From utilizing years old gear from years old bosses to the best of your abilities. From facing a group of toons geared like you never will be, and giving them a fight.

We lose. Often. But that hasn’t stopped us. It pushes us forward. It’s hard. Sometimes they whisper sweet nothings in our ears, seducing us with the promise of gear, luring us with their activity. But we know better. We ask not what our clan will do for us, we ask what we can do for it.
Level 228 Ice Mage
Level 226 Ranger
Level 224 Tank
Level 220 Druid
Level 190 Rogue Locker
Level 160+ Rogue
Guardian of Kudos, Relentless Underdogs of Danu
~Just leveling toons so I can show off my precious Wyldwood sets~
Danu

Re: Against the dominance

#17
Morrigan has had the same monopolization problems in the past with the last top clan. Many left the server or quit the game. Constant belittling after losing locks while having not a single piece of endgame gear just made everyone lose the will to play. We try our best to make sure that doesn’t reoccur.

With BT introduced the items there give a pretty big power boost compared to previous eg, making it even harder to fight against. It’s not impossible but it’s hard to take down clans that have ruled for a long period of time. But even when you overtake the dom clan it can get pretty boring without lock battles. It’s much more fun to be the underdogs imo.

If you are looking to become greater than the top clan then you will need to improve your clan as a whole. The best advice I think would be to ask top players about builds and tips. I visit many servers and most dom clans have many players with poor choice of equipment but get carried by certain gear pieces that lower clans do not have. Another key is persistence. Don’t be discouraged about a lock, keep trying and find a way to overcome it or get lucky. It’s a difficult task, but it’s doable.
Ugnar; 224 Warrior
Myne; 200 Rogue
Dyme; 200 Ranger
Ryme; 216 Druid
V1; 190 Rogue

Server:Morrigan
Clan:Havoc

Re: Against the dominance

#18
KillerFrost wrote:I’ll only speak for my clan of underdogs. We simply don’t give up. We keep pushing, against odds that become less and less in our favor every single day. My clan has fought for years, it’s leaders know nothing else. My fellow clansman, they know nothing else. We log for every unox due and we try to outlock. We log for proteus dues against T10 dg rangers decked out in gele and bt gear and we freaking try (assuming we have a decent group of course). Many days are rough, they make us question if any of it is worth it. If the millions we’ve invested in our toons are worth it. If all the struggling and pushing is worth it. Then we have good days, we out lock this clan of dg t10 over-geared toons. And it feels so damn good. We treat our clannies with love and respect, because we have one thing the dom clan, in all its grandeur and overwhelming mass has lost; the familial bond. We fight together, we cry together, we get frustrated together. And in the end, we are together.

What we do for our server goes largely unappreciated. We keep the competition alive. Without competition a sever is essentially dead, in my opinion at least. There is no joy in free gear, no real sense of accomplishment. The joy comes from fighting for it and earning it. From utilizing years old gear from years old bosses to the best of your abilities. From facing a group of toons geared like you never will be, and giving them a fight.

We lose. Often. But that hasn’t stopped us. It pushes us forward. It’s hard. Sometimes they whisper sweet nothings in our ears, seducing us with the promise of gear, luring us with their activity. But we know better. We ask not what our clan will do for us, we ask what we can do for it.


You guys do make bosses fun for us aswell :)

On a side note, might not win em all but you can always get something.

P.s
Spoiler!
t10 could be alittle better
Ascension

226+ Rogue
221+ Mage
160+ Warrior
220+ Mage
190 Locker
160+ Druid

Image

Rogue BT Kill 09/20/2019

39th Full Doch, 14th Rogue - Danu

Re: Against the dominance

#19
Furyion wrote:
Lucerin wrote:
Rikitt wrote:How to break a dominant clan 101:

1) Talk in private to a select few of people to see how they feel about their clan. Do they like the distribution system? Do they like their leaders? Which leaders do they not like and why? Do they wish they could do something different?

2) Approach the leaders you feel are most open minded. Ask them these same questions in number 1.

3) If you can gather at least 20% of the clan is interested in change or fails to trust their leaders, then you have what can be the militia to start your revolution.

4) Start out by suggesting new, probably unsatisfactory ideas in an attempt to illicit messages from leaders resembling a form of dictatorship. Use these to message players that you think this leader is unfit to hold their position.

5) Attempt suggesting radical changes. Do your clan members control what happens in the clan? Why not suggest to give them the power to vote on new leaders? The more distrust in one particular leader the more likely people will agree and want to be able to vote that leader out. Others will also like to have their voice matter, but might be too afraid to stir the pot. Therefore you should offer secret polls where votes can be counted and no names will appear.

6) Suggest a radical change in the direction you actually want to change to. Explain how it will benefit the server and provide growth to it. This will be the toughest challenge, but the more outspoken people will tend to lead the charge from here.

7) Keep picking at certain players you want to break down and get them to show their ugly side. The uglier they get the more the other players will not want to be around them and tend to agree more with your line of thought. Revolutionizing a server can take months to a year. But with the right patience, tact, and an accumulation of dirty behavior you can get any clan to break apart.


So you are advocating actual deception, maliciousness, manipulation, and being an all around bad human to attempt to unseat a dom clan?

This is the behavior of a sociopath. And any dom clan that has been around a while has had to deal with your type before.

If the dom clan is withholding drops from the rest of the world and preventing perfectly good people from being able to enjoy the game, then yes, they do deserve it. There are a good amount of dom clans that just cut off invites when they have enough people, or exile others just out of dislike for them(even when they haven't done anything wrong).

These tips have potential, and can help even out the odds. It's not like you are going to have much of a chance fighting a clan that is clearly better then yours, sometimes you have to get creative to make things happen.


You are justifying sociopathic behavior because a dom clan has built an organization that is winning, and they don’t give out their loot to others not in their clan?

This is mildly off-putting.

You want to change a dom clan? Be good enough to get in the clan. Earn your way up just like they did. Become a leader that people respect and value. Make the organization better. Change things because people want them changed, not because your feelings are hurt.

Or compete. Be the better organization. Be the place people want to see win. Their organization wasn’t made in a day. Yours won’t be either.

But in regards to this thread...

You know, manipulation and deception are also available. You can use that effort to sow dissent and discord to wedge a split in sects of the clan to hope it crumbles like the stellar individual you are. You, in a general sense, of course. I’m actually a bit disappointed this has been met with little criticism.
Clan Relentless
Praetorian V - 220 Warrior
PocketHeals - 220 Druid
Lucerin - 221 Ranger
The Bazaar - Trader

Re: Against the dominance

#20
Hey, guys, this is getting a little heated... I’m not an admin or anything but I highly (and respectfully) suggest cooling off. Isolatie’s original question was how to deal with the dominant clan, and Rikitt gave an answer. It might not be the best answer, but this is not a good place to argue over that.
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Angmar Reid—Herne—169 Warrior
RagingRedhead—Danu—183 Warrior (currently more active)
I don’t duel or dice. :D

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