Celtic Heroes

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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#31
Doc Holiday wrote:So, we had a convo on another thread and ended up drifting into this.

The idea of clan owned gear to me anyway, seems like BS dom clan logic.
The analogy I like to use is its kinda like working for a company, you put in all the time,effort n work.
Instead of getting payed they lend you money. Then if you ever quit your job, they try to take you to collections and have you charged w theft.

I personally think distribution establishes ownership.
You may have attended hundreds of bosses, as well as used DKP/AKP to bid on items essentially winning them twice, not even counting the ones you didn't bid on.
I guarantee nobody downloaded the game, hoping somebody would be kind enough to lend them gear, for the priviledge of helping the clan acquire more gear.

I know some have been chased around their servers for leaving clans, shunned labeled a thief ect ect ect.
This isnt a game ideology this is a player construct.

So curious on thoughts n experience on the issue, since every server is a bit different w a bit of a different approach.
Some ranging from free to play, to others well others well into the realms of complete totalitarianism.
The "clan owner gear" seem to be a topic that keep coming up when you talk to people.


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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#32
I think it all boils down to what you agree to when you join the clan. Does the clan have a 'return gear when you leave the clan" rule? If yes and you don't agree with it, then don't join the clan. If you don't like the rules of a company, don't work for them.

This is just my personal opinion and it's neither right nor wrong. Gear is accumulated because a group of individuals spent time and plat items to obtain that gear for the clan to grow more efficient and quicker at taking down raids. So an entire group has a vested interest in all gear.

One problem with the game is the majority of players that download this game are just looking for a fun MMORPG to play and don't realize all server politics until they have already spent a decent amount of hours and possibly money playing. I wish the developers could include a short description of each server politics before you pick a server.

But at the end of thr day, all that matters is what you agreed to when you joined the clan. If you don't like the rules, don't join that clan.
Zyz 220 Druid
Noah Fences 220 Rogue

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#33
I have mixed feelings on this. We had someone leave clan who sold BT drops to a non clan player as part of a transfer deal (he returned them later however in fairness). Our clan is the only clan capable of killing BT, we also don’t have many decent BT items in that class. Although I agree people worked for their gear and should be allowed to keep it, there is also an element of honor and decency in that you know you were given those drops because the leaders trusted that those drops would continue to be used to help the clan. For stuff like your common garden mord helms and prot braces, it’s whatever, they’re easily replaceable. Nothing is black and white.

No system is perfect, some prefer to play with people they actually like rather than be lumbered with the pests who transfer into epona because they can’t get accepted into a clan where people actually choose who they play with, of which there are many. It also depends on what your goal is, if you want a balls out op toon with full dg you are better off putting in the work on a dom server, I’ve seen the prices of pures over there...
MrsDredd - 223 Rogue
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DreadOnFire - 220 Fire Mage
Dreadshot - 203 Ranger

Pegasus, Lugh
Celtic Heroes noob since September 2017

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#34
Criminal wrote:Usually these threads are to present how perfect Epona is..... Well it isnt, lets admit it, epona has rules too, not all rules are clean of bias as the system behind the rolls is still voting, and there is no rolls system that isnt also a voting system, and thats just how it is.

Theres no perfect system, once ppl get that mindset clear they'll be far more understanding of one another. Ppl say Epona is perfect so all dom clans must be some greedy monsters whom are after the players to make their game miserable, and clans whom arent rolls and think their system as perfect think Epona is made of players who never got along under the authority of others due selfishness and greed and they want to be able to play only for themselves. Both are extreme mindsets that might have some true cases, Im sure some dom clans or rival clans are made out of greed or desire to affect badly on others on the game, although not fully, and Im sure some in Epona are ex-dom clan players who rather didnt get along with the authority of that clan and whatever other clans they were in as they were having selfish mindsets and cared for themselves, but these dont represent neither sides and thats what ppl need to understand.

If ppl truly think their system is perfect, thats their first flaw and most major one, because if u never acknowledge ur own flaws u will never be able to stop them from affecting u and everyone else. Epona isnt perfect, it never was, it never will be. It had many issues, it still does, it will always have. If ppl get that "Epona is perfect" out of their mindset they'll stop having to chase other servers and constantly telling them that they're falling downwards/they're greedy/whatever other insult comes from players who were part of dom clans themselves and just didnt like it and are clearly biased.

Its fine to discuss about the logic standing behind rules, but just because we discuss it still doesnt mean that the statement "If you dont like the rules, dont join them" doesnt stand. Everyone is required to read the rules upon joining and agreeing to them, if you treat them like Terms of Service then just dont get surprised when u get punished, its really simple, and VR/OTM will not act differently than dom clans would with their rules.

"When you get punished" do you not agree that following someone around and ruining their rep on other servers is excessive? Seen it happen firsthand but I agree not all Dom clans do it
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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#35
your forgetting the end part of all this...

When the clan dies. what happens to the banks. and Who really profits the most then?

Do those top tier drops on all the managements mains (and alts) players have to put back into the clan bank and given sold or given out fairly as a fair well gesture...Answer is NO.

it happened for years and years clan after clan nothing lasts forever...only the bankers/management PROFIT in these situations.

Look after yourselfs peeps.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#36
MrsDredd wrote:I have mixed feelings on this. We had someone leave clan who sold BT drops to a non clan player as part of a transfer deal (he returned them later however in fairness). Our clan is the only clan capable of killing BT, we also don’t have many decent BT items in that class. Although I agree people worked for their gear and should be allowed to keep it, there is also an element of honor and decency in that you know you were given those drops because the leaders trusted that those drops would continue to be used to help the clan. For stuff like your common garden mord helms and prot braces, it’s whatever, they’re easily replaceable. Nothing is black and white.

No system is perfect, some prefer to play with people they actually like rather than be lumbered with the pests who transfer into epona because they can’t get accepted into a clan where people actually choose who they play with, of which there are many. It also depends on what your goal is, if you want a balls out op toon with full dg you are better off putting in the work on a dom server, I’ve seen the prices of pures over there...

Lol not rly, takes years of work on most dom clan servers for full dg/gear and I've seen people do it on epona in months, just a matter of prioritizing and merching
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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#37
Imo u can’t compare earning gear in game with earning $ irl. In real life you work for a company and you do your part to earn your money. It’s different in a game with a clan because your all working equally the same for the same gear. You can’t solo gele prot bt etc etc, it’s a clans kill so it’s the clans drops that people can use. At the end of the day, it’s the clans item since you all worked collectively to get them. That’s just my opinion
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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#38
Elfylolz wrote:
Criminal wrote:Usually these threads are to present how perfect Epona is..... Well it isnt, lets admit it, epona has rules too, not all rules are clean of bias as the system behind the rolls is still voting, and there is no rolls system that isnt also a voting system, and thats just how it is.

Theres no perfect system, once ppl get that mindset clear they'll be far more understanding of one another. Ppl say Epona is perfect so all dom clans must be some greedy monsters whom are after the players to make their game miserable, and clans whom arent rolls and think their system as perfect think Epona is made of players who never got along under the authority of others due selfishness and greed and they want to be able to play only for themselves. Both are extreme mindsets that might have some true cases, Im sure some dom clans or rival clans are made out of greed or desire to affect badly on others on the game, although not fully, and Im sure some in Epona are ex-dom clan players who rather didnt get along with the authority of that clan and whatever other clans they were in as they were having selfish mindsets and cared for themselves, but these dont represent neither sides and thats what ppl need to understand.

If ppl truly think their system is perfect, thats their first flaw and most major one, because if u never acknowledge ur own flaws u will never be able to stop them from affecting u and everyone else. Epona isnt perfect, it never was, it never will be. It had many issues, it still does, it will always have. If ppl get that "Epona is perfect" out of their mindset they'll stop having to chase other servers and constantly telling them that they're falling downwards/they're greedy/whatever other insult comes from players who were part of dom clans themselves and just didnt like it and are clearly biased.

Its fine to discuss about the logic standing behind rules, but just because we discuss it still doesnt mean that the statement "If you dont like the rules, dont join them" doesnt stand. Everyone is required to read the rules upon joining and agreeing to them, if you treat them like Terms of Service then just dont get surprised when u get punished, its really simple, and VR/OTM will not act differently than dom clans would with their rules.

"When you get punished" do you not agree that following someone around and ruining their rep on other servers is excessive? Seen it happen firsthand but I agree not all Dom clans do it

That is not what I consider a punishment by the clan, thats just personal issues of players who cant accept the gear is gone, even if that player would be me. By punished I mean that if ur selling gear, dont expect the clan to accept u back or ever speak good of u when u xfer out / go to other clans and they want background checks on u. Ive seen ppl angry on me that I didnt speak good of them to other servers, while they werent good to us so why would I? And by get punished I mean getting kicked if u hoard, getting banned from drops temporarily / demoted if u hoarded (and returned, if u didnt return u would get kicked)... So on. These are fair punishments, when ur out of the clan all the clan can do is not chase u because thats wasted effort, but also not bother to speak good of u when asked.

Dont forget that reputation means a lot i nthis game, and if ur known as hoarder who sold clan gear AGAINST clan rules (which in that server, u will likely be considered a scammer too because u broke clan rules and abused clan banks and other players who worked hard for personal profits, as per their rules, so Id say its fair if they classified u as such), and if u want to xfer out I assume u want ur reputation to be good as well, so dont expect players to speak good of u if u chose to be bad to them.
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Re: Clan Owned Gear

#39
Lawsdog222 wrote:your forgetting the end part of all this...

When the clan dies. what happens to the banks. and Who really profits the most then?

Do those top tier drops on all the managements mains (and alts) players have to put back into the clan bank and given sold or given out fairly as a fair well gesture...Answer is NO.

it happened for years and years clan after clan nothing lasts forever...only the bankers/management PROFIT in these situations.

Look after yourselfs peeps.


Exactly. As much as those in Dom clans want to make others believe and themselves as well, there's no such thing as "clan" gear. At the end of the day, a human or a few have complete control over gear in banks and when the clan dies off or the generals have a falling out, those same people will be able to do as they please with that gear. I too have seen it happen before. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to deceive you or is delusional themselves.

As for the original question, I do not believe the generals of clans own all the drops. Once u spend your hard earned points on them, they are yours.

Re: Clan Owned Gear

#40
Curry30423 wrote:Imo u can’t compare earning gear in game with earning $ irl. In real life you work for a company and you do your part to earn your money. It’s different in a game with a clan because your all working equally the same for the same gear. You can’t solo gele prot bt etc etc, it’s a clans kill so it’s the clans drops that people can use. At the end of the day, it’s the clans item since you all worked collectively to get them. That’s just my opinion

Is that a challenge? .-.
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